Qwickrick

You cannot left foot brake with newer cars with "fly by wire" throttle

rmag

Gary - I know Larry so to me he's not "the guy" asking a question. Inside Joke based on a few of Larry's posts here and elsewhere. Now to everyone else, no flat-out jokes allowed on R-list!

Gary R.

Let's not get crazy, there will be PLENTY of good opportunities for reference to Dicky Speedmaster!

Land Jet

Maybe I should tell everyone to pound salt. If I can get 20 pages of trail braking instruction out of it, I'll become an expert at it.

Veloce Raptor

Actually, yes you can. You just need to be aware that, after about a second, the e gas system will cut throttle. But you can still LFB in these conditions quite well.








Professional Racing and Driving Coach

Paul 996

VR but DBW does make it a lot harder for "learnin" folk

Veloce Raptor

I disagree. Folks learning to LFB usually lift off the gas pedal anyway, so e gas makes no difference on the experience, IMO.








Professional Racing and Driving Coach

M758

There are two corner where I do 90 to 100% of the total deceleration in the corner. That is just the fast way. It helps that I am not going very fast into the corner and have good grip so I don't need to lose a ton of speed and both corners have a long corner entry.


I will say it varries alot. However the general rule of thumb goes like this and it somethign I got from a Vic Elford book.

Tie a string to bottom of the steering wheel and to your big toe on the braking foot. The string should such that the wheel neesd to e dead straight to go foot to the floor braking. So as you can imagine if you want to turn the wheel 90 degress the string will be too short to press the brake pedal to the floor. As you unwind the wheel you can brake more. This a crude visualization, but brings home the key point in that the more you turn the less braks you can use.


So in my two corners I have trained myself to brake as hard and deep as I can to scrub enough speed to keep the car on the road while turning. In one of these corners i brake form 110-115 mph with the wheel at 70 degree angle. It takes great finesse to brake enough to slow the car while still keeping the back end from coming around. I can't say how much brake pressure I used. It is alot, but I am constant modulating that pressure and I am ready to go WOT if the back end steps out. In fact that is the desired effect some degree in that corner.

So again I don't have hard fixed rule. That is why you need to start off with margin in hand to prevent flying off track. Then work your way up. Interestingly in my case I have probably spun off 20-30 times in that spot over the last 10 years. Never hit any thing because there is room. Ok I take that back I once had wheel bearing failure there and hit another car during a race as we were sideby side just inches apart. However that is a different situation. The other corner on the other track I have gotten sideways a few times, but may been off once . Point is I I have learned how hard I can push by exceeding the limit at times. So where you try to learn and then master trail braking should take into account the risk of spinning off. Ideally you learn where a mistake won't write off the car.

himself

If you have a consistent braking point, one way to practice this is to move your braking .5-1 car length closer to turn in. Then normal application of braking at the "new" start of the braking zone for about 3/4 of the braking zone and then start to SLOWLY release the brake pedal until you get to turn in, and then start to turn in under braking. Continue to release the brake slowly and then to gas, i.e., you will still be slowing through the corner. In this scenario, you just "gained" 1 car length of time since your mid-corner speed is [hopefully] the same. Continue to move your braking zone until you are fully releasing the brakes closer to the apex [depending on the corner]. BUT, keep in mind that at some point the car will feel VERY unstable as you will be turning in at a much higher rate of speed and trying to balance the traction circle. As you move your braking zone, you may also have to turn in earlier (where it appears you may be early apexing). This lengthens the zone where the traction circle is more on braking and less on turning, but the car will still be rotating under braking so you will still have the correct orientation at apex. [Hopefully!]

One critical skill you will have to develop is not dragging the brakes for longer than you need. Once the car is set in the corner get to POWER!! You might give up all the time you gained by braking later because you broke too long. And then you will be slower on the next straight as well...

Make sure to practice in small bites! And, really give an affimative effort to learning this as it is a new skill.

The gurus will chime in and correct the above, as I don't have time to re-read this at work doh!

-td

MPD47

It's also extremely easy to defeat in most cars by just installing an inline switch on the brake signal wire to the ECU with no ill effects. *

*Unless you understand how your ECU will handle this, don't try it. I take zero responsibility for you frying your electronics or ending up with a never ending string of CEL's because you didn't know what you were doing.

mdrums

NEWS FLASH....in my 2009 Carrera S PDK car when you press the brake the throttle DOES NOT cut off. You can drag the brakes all the way down the street.....I did this to burn off some different pad residual.

SH || NC

+1 This is where I learned in my C4S. I could not believe how much speed I could carry into 14 when done correctly.

IMO, this is the perfect explanation, and again, this is how I was taught and the light bulb moment was really cool.

swftiii

Larry,

I learned in turn 1 at Summit - great and safe location to start learning the skill. Once you get it down, turn 1, 5, entry to 6 are good places. You can try turn 10 - others say they do it there, but I don't really find that a good spot for me.

Enjoy,

Skip

jrgordonsenior

It'a an art form when excuted to perfection. I learned in my 6-cup with a pro who repeatedly timed it perfectly. The he had to sit next to me while I repeatedly spun it from going too deep or transitioning to the throttle too abruptly. As I said, it's an art form which takes lots of practice (and tires), but the technique will win you races when you get it.
Tip: He had me put my front bar to full stiff during these exercise to give me more control over the rear end....

PS: It works even better with a high lockup diff like Guard's 50/80...

prg

I used to track a 996tt frequently. The problem you face trail braking in a 996tt is the PSM. Even when turned off, it will reengage during braking. If you aggressively trail brake a 996tt to rotate the car on entry to a low speed corner, the PSM will apply outside rear brake to prevent rotation even if you have PSM switched off. The produces some pretty bizarre car behavior. Once you lift off the brake, the PSM disengages and the anti-rotational braking stops and the car will rotate. Once you have the desired rotation, you can go to power to weight the rear tires, control the rotation, and accellerate out of the turn. The 996 tt PSM actually will actively resist the use of trail braking to aggressively rotate the car. A non psm equiped car will generally rotate more with trail braking than with just a lifted throttle: A 996tt behaves just the opposite.