My GOOD experience renting a track car at Nurburgring
08-08-2010, 08:00 PM
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My GOOD experience renting a track car at Nurburgring
This is a long post but I hope this will be useful to fellow rennlisters going to the Nurburgring for the first time.
Summary: Went to the ring for 2 days, had a great time with an M3 and a 996.
- Rent racecar + instructor was a great package
- Scene is quite fun with lots of cool cars on the parking lot
- Driving was fantastic, awesome track, when not raining - Just jump to the 3rd video if you have little time.
- Will do it again!
********************************************
I started working on this trip months ago. The idea was to combine a visit to the ring with a family reunion/vacation in Germany. I convinced my lovely wife to drop the kids for a couple of days and join me for a romantic trip to Nurburg(!). She was a very good sport and even did one lap in the rain (we will put a Nurburgring sticker on her minivan
).
Prep
Preparation started way before the trip. It helped a lot. Key benefit was that I did not have to learn the track turn by turn and waste real laps, just make adjustments to match reality and change some of visual references.
- Playstation Gran Turismo 4 – A few times a week. Managed to get decent times with E46 M3 and much better with the Toyota race car (boy, this thing is quick).
- Ideal line from http://www.ideallinie-konzept.de/. Great package. Contains detailed maps, DVD, and a photo book which help explain the dry line. Trick obviously is to go back and forth between the document and the game to build memory. It helped me improve lap time on the game
- Videos from rennlist and youtube. Thanks facelvega for the most up-to date one.
- Shipped my gear (helmet, etc.) directly to Germany. Most people seem to drive without any protection. Given the speed and the number of crashes, I would still highly recommend some protection.
We stayed at Sonnehof-Adenau (http://fhw.sonnenhof-adenau.de/pages...e/englisch.htm) . Great hotel a few miles from the ring, at a top of the hill. Very nice rooms, friendly reception and a remarkable gastronomic restaurant. (I was skeptical at first but they are indeed top notch).
I had reserved 2 cars from Rent RaceCar (http://www.rent-racecar.de/).
- First day: e92 M3 (DCT)
- Second day: 996 C2: Exactly same as my DE car, down to the color combo. Upgraded suspension, bucket seats and brakes. New engine.
- For both days, I took a package including car, gas, ring tickets, instruction and insurance, – watch out, deductible was EUR 17k(!). BTW, I checked with my US insurance and they would not cover outside of the US. The rental rates are obviously pretty pricey but the convenience and service were important coming from the US for only 2 days.
- Overall, Rent RaceCar was great. Heide was very responsive over email, with lots of advice. She even helped with hotel suggestions. The whole team was very friendly and patient with me. Their cars appear well taken care of (I did my own quick tech inspection on the 996 with no issue– Brakes were plenty thick). Very professional. Theo came to refill the 996 on the second day when I was running out of gas. Everything was on time and as advertised.
Now the good stuff:
Day 1
On Friday, the Nurburgring opened for the public at 2:15pm. After all the paper work, I met with Martin, my first instructor and we took the M3 to the ring a few miles away. Martin was really friendly and knowledgeable about the track.
There are only a few rules beyond the DE common sense.
- The passing car can pass on the left (as in normal street driving) whenever it appears safe. Usually, the car being passed should put its blinker on the right side to indicate that they will facilitate the pass and move a bit off-line to the right. You can still pass on the left without the blinker. No passing signals required. In rare circumstances, they might let you pass on the right and put the blinkers on the left.
- Yellow flag indicates a potential issue or an accident. Slow down, no passing (although the Ring-Taxi passed us in a yellow flag section – I guess they have a different set of rules)
We passed the gates and the first chicane for our first lap with the instructor on passenger seat. I had asked Martin to let me do the first lap without comments. Had a good run with a little bit of traffic. Speed was decent. I was focusing more on the line. I think I was able to hit most of the turning points and apexes. The main differences compared to my training expectations were:
- Track is much narrower than on the game and the video, with the crash barriers very close to the track – very similar feeling to Watkins Glen, with a narrower paved surface
- Elevation/camber changes are much more pronounced than on the videos – I guess most cameras are in the car and do not capture the road camber
- Surface is much more bumpy than expected, especially in the Karussell
- Distance between turns is much shorter – It is hard to describe: With the videogame, there is time to stabilize the car and work a very clean line. In real life, turns come one after the other at a very fast pace.
- Biting the curb is a no-no, except at 2-3 places. They are generally pretty high and can unsettle the car – I used to do it almost at every turn on the game. Very bad idea.
- When my life and $$$ are on the line, I tend to be a bit more cautious… You can’t just start-over after a crash…
I must have done decently because the first thing the instructor asked me at the end of the first lap was: How many laps have you done on the video game? 100s? Yeah, about that…
We sat down for a while in the parking lot to debrief the turns using the ideal line documents. At one point, my head was spinning with all the German names (note to self and readers: It is much easier to communicate if you learn the section names).
Then the track closed because some (idiot) motorcycle got into an accident. By the time it reopened it started raining (!). After some debate, we decided to go back to the track to learn the “Rain-Line”. The idea is to avoid places with a lot of rubber accumulation (basically all the tight corners). I was going much slower as the car was sliding a little bit (thank you Stability Control). My wife took a turn and then the instructor drove us for a “warm” lap. (I may post the video later). I closed with one last lap as conditions were just getting worse. The only great thing about the rain is that the motorcycles disappeared and traffic was very light. So first day for me was: 1 dry lap and 3 rain laps (+ 1 instructor + 1 wife).
Day 2
Second day started much better. Rain was gone, with just a cloudy sky. Track appeared dry. I met Thomas at 8:45 and picked up the 996. We hit the track at the opening around 9:15. First couple of laps were fun, picking up speed, improving line and negotiating traffic.
Thomas then suggested to switch to a “lead –follow” method. He drove a GTI and I tried to follow him. I was a bit reluctant at first but it turns out to be a great way to instruct. The ring is so long that it is hard to do a lap and remember every turn to absorb the detailed feedback at debrief. Seeing the line in front of you helps a lot. I suspect it is also more interesting for the instructor to drive. Following a car slaloming through turns and traffic was challenging but was actually quite fun. A little bit like a TV chase, with some PSM interventions.
Couple of learnings are:
1. There are different lines. Sometimes he seemed to be more middle of the road than trying to hit the turning points (according to him, the ideal line mentioned in the book is not up-to-date based on car evolution and track modifications).
2. A prepped GTI with a professional driver can be quite fast and challenging to catch-up, even with a 996. After a total of 6 laps, we stopped the instruction as planned and I took a long break to refuel mind and body.
I wandered around the parking lot. Pretty amazing. Ferraris, GT3 RS, Carrera GT, Lotus, Lambo, etc. There is also another parking across the street in a field with more cars. In the video, you will see just the main parking with some comments.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTdA6rY38AI
Remaining laps were on my own. Apparently fixed cameras are discouraged because they are worried of people capturing gory accidents and posting them on youtube(!), damaging the ring’s reputation (although this was never clearly indicated and I saw cars with mounted cameras). With some unnamed help, I enlisted a fearless Australian to ride shot-gun and make a couple of videos after the start. Pretty cool guy. I was driving around 80% to avoid any issue with a passenger and first laps on my own. You will see a couple of yellow flag sections (first one indicated by a light on the side). They cost us quite a bit of time…
On the first video, we are keeping up with the ring taxi until the long upward section after the Bergwerk curve. I must say that I chickened-out a bit. I know this section can be driven “flat-out” and that’s how I usually drive: “flat-out”… in the video game
. In reality, it takes a lot of courage and experience to keep the pedal to the metal for so long, all the way up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZuqScqh8i4
The second video is the best of the 2. Still with yellow flag situations slowing us down.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyVgOXKkopM
Got 2 more laps alone after that at a slightly higher pace (no video), with a few PSM interventions especially in later part of the track. Finished around 4pm. I could probably have squeezed a few more laps but I wanted to leave on a high note and my last lap was great.
Overall: 11 dry laps, 3 in the rain. The whole experience was fantastic. It feels like a DE event but adds the thrill of a long, diverse and technical track, more freedom, and passing other cars like real street/autobahn driving (not waiting forever for a point by or a straight). I will try to do this again (Maybe the BMW CCA ring school). Next time, flat out!
Other P-stuff
Other highlights of the trip was a family visit to the Porsche Museum in ZuffenHausen. (Factory was closed). Amazing cars (a bit of Porsche **** below for the addicts). And only a few short stints >200kph on the autobahn with an E-class… Too much traffic and road work.
Summary: Went to the ring for 2 days, had a great time with an M3 and a 996.
- Rent racecar + instructor was a great package
- Scene is quite fun with lots of cool cars on the parking lot
- Driving was fantastic, awesome track, when not raining - Just jump to the 3rd video if you have little time.
- Will do it again!
********************************************
I started working on this trip months ago. The idea was to combine a visit to the ring with a family reunion/vacation in Germany. I convinced my lovely wife to drop the kids for a couple of days and join me for a romantic trip to Nurburg(!). She was a very good sport and even did one lap in the rain (we will put a Nurburgring sticker on her minivan
). Prep
Preparation started way before the trip. It helped a lot. Key benefit was that I did not have to learn the track turn by turn and waste real laps, just make adjustments to match reality and change some of visual references.
- Playstation Gran Turismo 4 – A few times a week. Managed to get decent times with E46 M3 and much better with the Toyota race car (boy, this thing is quick).
- Ideal line from http://www.ideallinie-konzept.de/. Great package. Contains detailed maps, DVD, and a photo book which help explain the dry line. Trick obviously is to go back and forth between the document and the game to build memory. It helped me improve lap time on the game
- Videos from rennlist and youtube. Thanks facelvega for the most up-to date one.
- Shipped my gear (helmet, etc.) directly to Germany. Most people seem to drive without any protection. Given the speed and the number of crashes, I would still highly recommend some protection.
We stayed at Sonnehof-Adenau (http://fhw.sonnenhof-adenau.de/pages...e/englisch.htm) . Great hotel a few miles from the ring, at a top of the hill. Very nice rooms, friendly reception and a remarkable gastronomic restaurant. (I was skeptical at first but they are indeed top notch).
I had reserved 2 cars from Rent RaceCar (http://www.rent-racecar.de/).
- First day: e92 M3 (DCT)
- Second day: 996 C2: Exactly same as my DE car, down to the color combo. Upgraded suspension, bucket seats and brakes. New engine.
- For both days, I took a package including car, gas, ring tickets, instruction and insurance, – watch out, deductible was EUR 17k(!). BTW, I checked with my US insurance and they would not cover outside of the US. The rental rates are obviously pretty pricey but the convenience and service were important coming from the US for only 2 days.
- Overall, Rent RaceCar was great. Heide was very responsive over email, with lots of advice. She even helped with hotel suggestions. The whole team was very friendly and patient with me. Their cars appear well taken care of (I did my own quick tech inspection on the 996 with no issue– Brakes were plenty thick). Very professional. Theo came to refill the 996 on the second day when I was running out of gas. Everything was on time and as advertised.
Now the good stuff:
Day 1
On Friday, the Nurburgring opened for the public at 2:15pm. After all the paper work, I met with Martin, my first instructor and we took the M3 to the ring a few miles away. Martin was really friendly and knowledgeable about the track.
There are only a few rules beyond the DE common sense.
- The passing car can pass on the left (as in normal street driving) whenever it appears safe. Usually, the car being passed should put its blinker on the right side to indicate that they will facilitate the pass and move a bit off-line to the right. You can still pass on the left without the blinker. No passing signals required. In rare circumstances, they might let you pass on the right and put the blinkers on the left.
- Yellow flag indicates a potential issue or an accident. Slow down, no passing (although the Ring-Taxi passed us in a yellow flag section – I guess they have a different set of rules)
We passed the gates and the first chicane for our first lap with the instructor on passenger seat. I had asked Martin to let me do the first lap without comments. Had a good run with a little bit of traffic. Speed was decent. I was focusing more on the line. I think I was able to hit most of the turning points and apexes. The main differences compared to my training expectations were:
- Track is much narrower than on the game and the video, with the crash barriers very close to the track – very similar feeling to Watkins Glen, with a narrower paved surface
- Elevation/camber changes are much more pronounced than on the videos – I guess most cameras are in the car and do not capture the road camber
- Surface is much more bumpy than expected, especially in the Karussell
- Distance between turns is much shorter – It is hard to describe: With the videogame, there is time to stabilize the car and work a very clean line. In real life, turns come one after the other at a very fast pace.
- Biting the curb is a no-no, except at 2-3 places. They are generally pretty high and can unsettle the car – I used to do it almost at every turn on the game. Very bad idea.
- When my life and $$$ are on the line, I tend to be a bit more cautious… You can’t just start-over after a crash…
I must have done decently because the first thing the instructor asked me at the end of the first lap was: How many laps have you done on the video game? 100s? Yeah, about that…
We sat down for a while in the parking lot to debrief the turns using the ideal line documents. At one point, my head was spinning with all the German names (note to self and readers: It is much easier to communicate if you learn the section names).
Then the track closed because some (idiot) motorcycle got into an accident. By the time it reopened it started raining (!). After some debate, we decided to go back to the track to learn the “Rain-Line”. The idea is to avoid places with a lot of rubber accumulation (basically all the tight corners). I was going much slower as the car was sliding a little bit (thank you Stability Control). My wife took a turn and then the instructor drove us for a “warm” lap. (I may post the video later). I closed with one last lap as conditions were just getting worse. The only great thing about the rain is that the motorcycles disappeared and traffic was very light. So first day for me was: 1 dry lap and 3 rain laps (+ 1 instructor + 1 wife).
Day 2
Second day started much better. Rain was gone, with just a cloudy sky. Track appeared dry. I met Thomas at 8:45 and picked up the 996. We hit the track at the opening around 9:15. First couple of laps were fun, picking up speed, improving line and negotiating traffic.
Thomas then suggested to switch to a “lead –follow” method. He drove a GTI and I tried to follow him. I was a bit reluctant at first but it turns out to be a great way to instruct. The ring is so long that it is hard to do a lap and remember every turn to absorb the detailed feedback at debrief. Seeing the line in front of you helps a lot. I suspect it is also more interesting for the instructor to drive. Following a car slaloming through turns and traffic was challenging but was actually quite fun. A little bit like a TV chase, with some PSM interventions.
Couple of learnings are:
1. There are different lines. Sometimes he seemed to be more middle of the road than trying to hit the turning points (according to him, the ideal line mentioned in the book is not up-to-date based on car evolution and track modifications).
2. A prepped GTI with a professional driver can be quite fast and challenging to catch-up, even with a 996. After a total of 6 laps, we stopped the instruction as planned and I took a long break to refuel mind and body.
I wandered around the parking lot. Pretty amazing. Ferraris, GT3 RS, Carrera GT, Lotus, Lambo, etc. There is also another parking across the street in a field with more cars. In the video, you will see just the main parking with some comments.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTdA6rY38AI
Remaining laps were on my own. Apparently fixed cameras are discouraged because they are worried of people capturing gory accidents and posting them on youtube(!), damaging the ring’s reputation (although this was never clearly indicated and I saw cars with mounted cameras). With some unnamed help, I enlisted a fearless Australian to ride shot-gun and make a couple of videos after the start. Pretty cool guy. I was driving around 80% to avoid any issue with a passenger and first laps on my own. You will see a couple of yellow flag sections (first one indicated by a light on the side). They cost us quite a bit of time…
On the first video, we are keeping up with the ring taxi until the long upward section after the Bergwerk curve. I must say that I chickened-out a bit. I know this section can be driven “flat-out” and that’s how I usually drive: “flat-out”… in the video game
. In reality, it takes a lot of courage and experience to keep the pedal to the metal for so long, all the way up. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZuqScqh8i4
The second video is the best of the 2. Still with yellow flag situations slowing us down.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyVgOXKkopM
Got 2 more laps alone after that at a slightly higher pace (no video), with a few PSM interventions especially in later part of the track. Finished around 4pm. I could probably have squeezed a few more laps but I wanted to leave on a high note and my last lap was great.
Overall: 11 dry laps, 3 in the rain. The whole experience was fantastic. It feels like a DE event but adds the thrill of a long, diverse and technical track, more freedom, and passing other cars like real street/autobahn driving (not waiting forever for a point by or a straight). I will try to do this again (Maybe the BMW CCA ring school). Next time, flat out!
Other P-stuff
Other highlights of the trip was a family visit to the Porsche Museum in ZuffenHausen. (Factory was closed). Amazing cars (a bit of Porsche **** below for the addicts). And only a few short stints >200kph on the autobahn with an E-class… Too much traffic and road work.
Last edited by 911FM; 08-08-2010 at 09:49 PM.
08-09-2010, 09:53 AM
#4
Rennlist Member
Thanks for posting!
LOL
I went to the museum and the Ring with rentracecar.de July 6th. and I am trying to get back there next month... I rented a track prepped BMW 120I. Great experience! Must do again and this time buy a video game!
On the first video, we are keeping up with the ring taxi until the long upward section after the Bergwerk curve. I must say that I chickened-out a bit. I know this section can be driven “flat-out” and that’s how I usually drive: “flat-out”… in the video game . In reality, it takes a lot of courage and experience to keep the pedal to the metal for so long, all the way up.
I went to the museum and the Ring with rentracecar.de July 6th. and I am trying to get back there next month... I rented a track prepped BMW 120I. Great experience! Must do again and this time buy a video game!
08-09-2010, 11:23 AM
#5
Thank you for a WONDERFUL post. I hope to do this someday too and the information is very helpful.
08-09-2010, 06:00 PM
#7
Pro
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Great post. Thanks for sharing. We were there July 8 but didn't get on the track.
Leh- Glad to hear the Scrirocco's are fun. That's what I'm planning to rent for a few days next time we're in the Eifel.
Leh- Glad to hear the Scrirocco's are fun. That's what I'm planning to rent for a few days next time we're in the Eifel.
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08-09-2010, 07:15 PM
#8
Rennlist Member
Excellent post! It looked like you had the most fun in "chase mode". For a few minutes I felt like I was there in my GT3; Thanks for that. It makes you wonder what it takes to do sub 8 minute laps like Walter Rohrle and other do. Next time I am in Germany I will do this! (not the sub 8 minute part)
08-09-2010, 07:36 PM
#9
Rennlist Member
Tremendous post. Thanks for taking the time to write up your experiences. I agree it's a definite bucket list item.
08-09-2010, 10:00 PM
#11
Herr Unmöglich
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I rented a car and did the ring as well a couple years back... having a good rental experience is certainly half the effort. The track is amazing as well and I look forward to getting back there in the future. Thanks for the review!
08-10-2010, 03:10 AM
#12
Three Wheelin'
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Awesome, your write-up is a nice service and general update.
(What's your name?)
That hotel website is a hoot, but the place looks very inviting.
Funny they describe the hotel location as a "sun plateau" but I'm sure that's an accurate description for that hilly area.
I last drove it back in '88, yeah 20 years already. I had my 323i, but road cars of that vintage were not really worthy of the 'Ring, ha.
I know a lot of Brits go over and go nuts on the Autobahn, and the walk-around looked like there were some wannabe organ-donors talking a big game, geez.
Hope those guys don't shred the armco before I can get over again in a couple years, ha.
Awesome videos and write-up -- thanks again!
(What's your name?)
That hotel website is a hoot, but the place looks very inviting.
Funny they describe the hotel location as a "sun plateau" but I'm sure that's an accurate description for that hilly area.
I last drove it back in '88, yeah 20 years already. I had my 323i, but road cars of that vintage were not really worthy of the 'Ring, ha.
I know a lot of Brits go over and go nuts on the Autobahn, and the walk-around looked like there were some wannabe organ-donors talking a big game, geez.
Hope those guys don't shred the armco before I can get over again in a couple years, ha.
Awesome videos and write-up -- thanks again!
07-12-2014, 03:08 PM
#14
Race Car
Super write up even if a few years old ... Vids too...
Has anyone done the porsche driver experience at the nordsheife (ring)?
Choice is a new C2S or GT3 (with extinguisher
)
Would love to hear if experienced gentleman-ish CUP racer would enjoy or find it restricting IYO or experience?
Thanks in advance,
Matt
Has anyone done the porsche driver experience at the nordsheife (ring)?
Choice is a new C2S or GT3 (with extinguisher
)Would love to hear if experienced gentleman-ish CUP racer would enjoy or find it restricting IYO or experience?
Thanks in advance,
Matt
07-12-2014, 06:10 PM
#15
Race Car
Here is the document ... I wonder what 'guided' means ...
I think it means follow the leader ala ski school
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xpcnf26qac...e%20car_en.pdf
I think it means follow the leader ala ski school
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xpcnf26qac...e%20car_en.pdf