Why aren't more Black and Red run group drivers.........
06-24-2010, 09:41 PM
#91
Drifting
I'm still a novice racer, about 8 races so far and my budget has doubled since being a DE only driver.
The cost differences are pretty straight forward.
DE registration - $150.00 for typical 2 day event
PCA Race registration - $500.00 per.
Always need fresh Hoosiers for a club race. You can drive Hoosiers to the cord for DE's.
Racing results improve with enhanced suspension, data acquisition and ongoing quest for perfect car set up. I'm afraid to add up what I've spent in the last 3 years in the quest for better results.
DE's demand on the above mentioned items is rather light.
Bottom line is the DE budget is close to 1/2 of that for Club racing.
The cost differences are pretty straight forward.
DE registration - $150.00 for typical 2 day event
PCA Race registration - $500.00 per.
Always need fresh Hoosiers for a club race. You can drive Hoosiers to the cord for DE's.
Racing results improve with enhanced suspension, data acquisition and ongoing quest for perfect car set up. I'm afraid to add up what I've spent in the last 3 years in the quest for better results.
DE's demand on the above mentioned items is rather light.
Bottom line is the DE budget is close to 1/2 of that for Club racing.
06-24-2010, 09:57 PM
#92
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Thread Starter
06-24-2010, 10:00 PM
#93
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Thread Starter
06-24-2010, 10:37 PM
#96
Rennlist Member
Paolo, there are organizations that let instructors in for free. I haven't found a PCA (or any other) race do that yet.
06-24-2010, 11:11 PM
#97
Rennlist Member
Most that do require you to take TWO students that I have heard of, which if I wanted to drive, I would not do. If only one student it would be a great deal!
But why aren't more Black and Red run group drivers racing?
Waaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh it costs too much!!!!!!!!!
But why aren't more Black and Red run group drivers racing?
Waaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh it costs too much!!!!!!!!!
06-24-2010, 11:47 PM
#98
Race Car
Currently, Roebling Road in Savannah commands $200 or less per event. I think there is one in September for $175. Instructors are under $100.
06-25-2010, 01:12 AM
#99
OK, I'm calling BS on the endless rationalization.
My thesis is simple. When you decide you want to go racing, and that your family/work situation allows it, everything else is straightforward. Choose the series/sanctioning body/class that fits you budget, and go for it. The whole, 'I really want to race, but I can't or won't because [insert bogus reasoning here]" boils down to, "I don't really want to race" or "I cant afford the time/money it takes to race'. Both are entirely reasonable choices.
Like most of us I started DE, progressed through the run groups, made instructor, ran on some legendary tracks, and had a great time. At no point in this process did I have the slightest desire to go racing. I've raced sailplanes at National level, and ocean raced sailboats in my past. They were logistical nightmares, and I really enjoyed the simplicity of driving my car to & from the track for DE.
What happened to spoil this nice simple but fulfilling enjoyment? It was the little voice that said, "Well, you've done OK at this, so what's next?" Once that started, I was done. By the start of the next season I'd picked the series I wanted to run, sold my DE car, bought a race car and trailer, and it was ON! Three solid years of 12 races a season for series points, plus every club DE that didn't clash with a race weekend. Loved it. Its kinda in the blood. If you have the gene that wants 'what's next' then you'll find a way.
All this talk of a rational choice based on empirical factors is a little bit delusional. Sorry.
PS: As a doubtless futile attempt to raise the DE v racing analogy game that is currently languishing in the fap closet.......
DE is to racing as paintball is to armed combat.
My thesis is simple. When you decide you want to go racing, and that your family/work situation allows it, everything else is straightforward. Choose the series/sanctioning body/class that fits you budget, and go for it. The whole, 'I really want to race, but I can't or won't because [insert bogus reasoning here]" boils down to, "I don't really want to race" or "I cant afford the time/money it takes to race'. Both are entirely reasonable choices.
Like most of us I started DE, progressed through the run groups, made instructor, ran on some legendary tracks, and had a great time. At no point in this process did I have the slightest desire to go racing. I've raced sailplanes at National level, and ocean raced sailboats in my past. They were logistical nightmares, and I really enjoyed the simplicity of driving my car to & from the track for DE.
What happened to spoil this nice simple but fulfilling enjoyment? It was the little voice that said, "Well, you've done OK at this, so what's next?" Once that started, I was done. By the start of the next season I'd picked the series I wanted to run, sold my DE car, bought a race car and trailer, and it was ON! Three solid years of 12 races a season for series points, plus every club DE that didn't clash with a race weekend. Loved it. Its kinda in the blood. If you have the gene that wants 'what's next' then you'll find a way.
All this talk of a rational choice based on empirical factors is a little bit delusional. Sorry.
PS: As a doubtless futile attempt to raise the DE v racing analogy game that is currently languishing in the fap closet.......
DE is to racing as paintball is to armed combat.
Last edited by APKhaos; 06-25-2010 at 01:56 AM.
06-25-2010, 01:50 AM
#101
GT3 player par excellence
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06-25-2010, 01:54 AM
#102
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Wow, I can’t believe all the responses…… I hope I didn’t strike a nerve for anyone……
A couple of my points:
1) For me the cost of 30 days of DEs is same if not more of the cost of doing 4-5 races/year
2) My closest tracks are Lime Rock 3hrs. WGI and Tremblant 7hrs. Calabogie 9hrs. why would I want to put so many miles on my fancy daily driver/DE warrior?
Therefore the cost of owning a tow vehicle/trailer is not an added cost to me, just smart planning, I was towing my car while doing DEs.
3) My race car is probably 1/3 of the cost of the fancy DD/DE cars, I can ball up mine in a race write it off and still drive home.
I know that nobody ever crashes their car at a DE event, but there is a small possibility right?
This brings us to my final point:
If you are soooooo worried about the extra cost of tires, how can you ever afford to track a DD worth 75-120K with no extra safety equip. i.e. cage, put yourself in an health (hitting a wall) and financial (cost of car) hazard plus be stranded hours away from home if an accident were to happen?
This sport is expensive weather you DE or Race thus I have decided to full advantage of the situation and will never look back.
A couple of my points:
1) For me the cost of 30 days of DEs is same if not more of the cost of doing 4-5 races/year
2) My closest tracks are Lime Rock 3hrs. WGI and Tremblant 7hrs. Calabogie 9hrs. why would I want to put so many miles on my fancy daily driver/DE warrior?
Therefore the cost of owning a tow vehicle/trailer is not an added cost to me, just smart planning, I was towing my car while doing DEs.
3) My race car is probably 1/3 of the cost of the fancy DD/DE cars, I can ball up mine in a race write it off and still drive home.
I know that nobody ever crashes their car at a DE event, but there is a small possibility right?
This brings us to my final point:
If you are soooooo worried about the extra cost of tires, how can you ever afford to track a DD worth 75-120K with no extra safety equip. i.e. cage, put yourself in an health (hitting a wall) and financial (cost of car) hazard plus be stranded hours away from home if an accident were to happen?
This sport is expensive weather you DE or Race thus I have decided to full advantage of the situation and will never look back.
but this logic you use is pro racing and flawed.
how can u compare 30 DE day to 4-5 races a year. when i say racing cost more i am talking about 30 DE days vs 30 racing days in the SAME car.
personally i am not concerned with cost, i am just saying racing cost more than DE.
06-25-2010, 02:30 AM
#103
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06-25-2010, 10:53 AM
#104
Race Director
I'm still a novice racer, about 8 races so far and my budget has doubled since being a DE only driver.
The cost differences are pretty straight forward.
DE registration - $150.00 for typical 2 day event
PCA Race registration - $500.00 per.
Always need fresh Hoosiers for a club race. You can drive Hoosiers to the cord for DE's.
Racing results improve with enhanced suspension, data acquisition and ongoing quest for perfect car set up. I'm afraid to add up what I've spent in the last 3 years in the quest for better results.
DE's demand on the above mentioned items is rather light.
Bottom line is the DE budget is close to 1/2 of that for Club racing.
The cost differences are pretty straight forward.
DE registration - $150.00 for typical 2 day event
PCA Race registration - $500.00 per.
Always need fresh Hoosiers for a club race. You can drive Hoosiers to the cord for DE's.
Racing results improve with enhanced suspension, data acquisition and ongoing quest for perfect car set up. I'm afraid to add up what I've spent in the last 3 years in the quest for better results.
DE's demand on the above mentioned items is rather light.
Bottom line is the DE budget is close to 1/2 of that for Club racing.
2 day race vs 2 day DE
Entry Fees $289 DE- 2 $299 race - I call that a wash
Tires. - 944 spec I run 2 sets of tire all season long. I do always have 2 sets ready to race just incase I damage a tire, but I ran 8 races (1/2 my season) on one set of tires. I was always figthing for the lead in front pack. I could not afford to do even DE I had to runn hoosiers. However in spec class they are not even allowed. RA-1's are good to the cord even in racing.
Set-up - 944 spec has a spec suspension - $2500 for the entire thing. Done.... If you want to tweak it it costs you nothing. You just change it. Get a baseline alignment done and then adjust after that to suit you. Data Aq.. I don't have any at all. I never have in 10 year yet I am still competitive.
Bottomline is my racing budget is less than your DE budget.
Look racing is more expensive if you chose to race a PCA stock class car or even a PCA GT car. However if you chose a spec miata, 944 spec, spec E30 or even spec boxster. You can really but a lid on costs and race competitively for less. What costs racers big money is two things. New tires every event and the latest go fast parts.
Spec classes force you to on long lasting tires and prevent you from getting the latest go fast parts.
06-25-2010, 10:57 AM
#105
Drifting
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Look racing is more expensive if you chose to race a PCA stock class car or even a PCA GT car. However if you chose a spec miata, 944 spec, spec E30 or even spec boxster. You can really but a lid on costs and race competitively for less. What costs racers big money is two things. New tires every event and the latest go fast parts.
Spec classes force you to on long lasting tires and prevent you from getting the latest go fast parts.