BostonDMD

Professor, how about in the....... "not so helpful, non-contact strategy?"

I am guessing it is a bit more strategic.....

M758

I drive low hp car so my plan is this.

1) Get run on guy where I can. I can't let myself get too close in the turns as if I slow to his apex speed I am done since the other guy can accelerate faster.

2) Find spot on track where I can get a run and stuff him. It may slow us both down, but taking away his line or forcing side by side could be enough. Chances are it won't be in a traditional passing spot. If I am lucky I can do this in the middle of a series of corners. This way I can pull a gap before the next straight to have some hope of not being blown away.

3) If I have to pass before straight then block like hell on the straight after the pass to keep him back. Now I when I say block like hell I mean block, but don't get caught blocking. (ie 1 move and a 1/2 a move). Then hope by the next set of corners you can pull a gap.

4) Final idea is to scare the crap out of the guy infront. Meaning make him scared to be running so close in the corners. There is hope that the guy slower in the turns is slower since he is not as good and maybe you can spook him into either a mistake or just giving you room in the corners to avoid contact cause you are a crazy bastard who is "all over the place".


I once had a race with 450 hp viper. Poor guy was holding me up in the turns and I would pass under braking only to have him blow back by. After 2-3 laps pass and repass I passed in hair pin on fast run to the next bend I block him like mad and gave him the finger. Not really cool, but it worked. He backed out and I got clean run into the next corner and pulled enough gap to make to to the twisties and then pull away. Funny thing I was so pissed I gave him the finger, but it happened to be where guys pull off to enter the pit lane too. He may have though I had a problem and was making dive for pit entry with the handout the window. Heck I don't know other than it worked.

Paolo in your care you may have un wittingly done step 4. Made yourself so un predictable that the boxster guy knew you were coming and just gave you room in 1. However it also seems like false hope since that openning also baited you in too deep.

The move and counter move. This is why racing is fun.

Brian P

I agree with you, which is why I chose what I did. I felt the other option was to take a defensive line (which seems overly cautious from looking at the video) and give up even more speed in 1. I felt if I did that, I'd be conceding the pass on the back straight.

Was there a third option (besides going faster) that I wasn't considering?

cello

Excellent thread gents!! .. Esp nice to have both parties involved here to get the different perspectives.. Thx

Brian P

Joe has good advice. Getting a run on the guy is HUGE and if you still do DEs, you should use that time to get that down pat. Basically, if you are complaining about not getting pass signals from high HP cars at a DE, then you don't know how to get a run on people.

Also, make sure that you execute the pass on a part of the course where you can make it stick. For example, don't force a pass at Oak Tree at VIR or at 5a/5b at Mosport.

Finally, have patience, but be prepared to take advantage of any mistake. Paolo, you were slowly reeling me in on that race, and you probably would have made the pass later on that lap. You let the mist get to you and forced a pass that wasn't there (IMHO - then again, you almost made it stick - so perhaps you could have done it)

bobt993

block one move is legal, it is really hard to take the long way around in T1 except on the start. You would be on the outside for two successive corners trying to pass around the outside of 1.
This happens when you have two drivers that have similar times, but in different parts of the track are faster. Hard to get clear of a car that is equal in lap times unless you take their momentum away.

Brian P

Paolo has the full video, but my recollection was that a lap or two earlier he pulled out from even further back in turn 1 to attempt the pass. That's why I felt pretty sure he was going to try it again on that lap.

Brian P

I think if I took a blocking/defensive line in 1, then Paolo would have stayed wide and took a normal line. This would have essentially let him close up any remaining ground between us. However, I guess I was letting that happen anyhow.

bobt993

Yes, but if you were outpowering him your run up to the bus stop should gain some big room. I had a good race with Eric Wong in March and he knew a 911 could outbrake an M3 into T1 at Summit so on the white flag lap he moved me over to the shoulder leaving almost a car width to the inside just begging me to try it. That left him two options shut me down more to the inside or force me to try around the outside. I think moving inside would have made it tough for him to re-establish an outside run.

BostonDMD

Good advice guys...... I really appreciate it as I am sure alot lot of other lurkers do.....

Just to clarify, I wasn't specifically talking about Brian or his car, I was actually stuck behind a G and an J car that were actually pulling away 4-5 car lengths or more on the straights only to be caught in the corners where I did have to finally use Joe's rule #4 to get by them......

Brian, I enjoyed racing with you at the Glen this year where we could battle it out unlike last year where you blew past me and we seemed like we weren't even in the same class......

Thunderbolt?.........

Professor Helmüt Tester

Meow.

OK..."non-contact".

You have to think "Where can I leg out 1-3 secs. on Mr X, so he can't get a run back at me ?"

T1, T2 or the Esses ? Noop. Never happen, for obvious reasons. You gotta find a "whole bunch of turning", and get the pass done early in that "whole bunch of turning". If you're running similar lap times (within a couple secs.), and really DO have a corner speed advantage, you should be able to crawl up Mr X's tailpipe by the exit of the Bus Stop, or somewhere early in the Outer Loop. THIS is where you need to be aggressive, and a little bit of crazy-*** doesn't hurt, too.

Poke at him at the exit of the Bus Stop. Maybe stuff it inside him as you transit down across the pavement seams into the Outer Loop...and consider the emasculating "outside pass" in the middle of the Outer Loop, which gives you the line into T6, the Downhill Left. It's a really effective move, and if you have even half your wits about you, you should be able to make it stick. There is lots of grip in the Outer Loop (even when the camber flattens out), and plenty of room to go around the outside of them, as long as you're reasonably confident that they're not going to pinch you out to driver's left at the exit...and if they do, just give them a tire donut on on their driver's door as a reward...because it certainly gives them a wake-up call to get their head out of their *** and pay attention.

What to do then, as they may have power to get even with you as you're headed to the Heel (T8) ? Plant your big fat *** right where they want to be. Don't block...blocking is for asshats, and Der Professor frowns on asshats...but nothing says that you have to make it easy for them...drive right where they want to be ! If you can get to the Heel in front...or keep even and keep the line down the right-hand side of the track, you should be golden as you can use your superior cornering speed up to the Off-camber, and then just flat-foot it thru T10 & T11.

So...to recap...at WGI...if you're faced with a car that is running lap times close to you, but has motor...you need to "get it done" somewhere between the Bus Stop and the Downhill Left. Anyplace else and you're liable to get re-passed.

Der Professor loves the "outside pass", especially in a low(er) power car. Nothing says "YOU SUCK" to a driver in a car of superior horsepower than to have some little whimpy ****box pass them by taking the LONG WAY around the corner...to the outside. Follow it up with a cheery, jaunty wave at the exit, and you've then pulled off the perfect "psy-ops" pass.

Just don't tell anyone...this is our little secret.

And...don't forget...when passing...slide right down their wax-job....you're protecting yourself (really), letting them know you're there (they'll hear you, or sense the pressure change), and asserting yourself.

Charles A. Toupin

^ I like this one so much! ^

Der Professor advices are impressive.

And thanks for the info, as I'll be racing racing for the first time this weekend at Calabogie. I was under the impression that I had to leave lotsa space between cars, so I'll revise the whole thing!

Any other tips for a first timer (sorry if I highjack the thread...).

Tx.

C.

DanR

Good luck Charles, First race stay safe, listen to other racers around you with more experience as a lot goes on. Especially helpful if someone can be there with you for the simple things like registration, getting your log book, making sure you go to the drivers meeting etc etc. If I was doing my first race again I would have tech support from a garage to avoid having to worry about the car and focus on the driving

FredC

Bonne chance. Just drive your line, be predictable, and you'll be fine. That's the key to get to the 2nd race.

Astroman

Holy SH*T I love it when the Professor decides to teach! Hilarious always!