View Poll Results: Who will win?
Nico Rosberg
0
0%
Rubens Barrichello
0
0%
Nico Hulkenberg
0
0%
Robert Kubica
0
0%
Vitaly Petrov
0
0%
Adrian Sutil
0
0%
Viantonio Liuzzi
0
0%
Sebastien Buemi
0
0%
Jamie Alguersuari
0
0%
Jarno Trulli
0
0%
Heikki Kovalainen
0
0%
Karun Chandhok
0
0%
Bruno Senna
0
0%
Pedro de la Rosa
0
0%
Kamui Kobayashi
0
0%
Timo Glock
0
0%
Voters: 49. You may not vote on this poll
2010 European Grand Prix (Valencia)
06-28-2010, 12:30 PM
#136
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There were some shots during the race of cars literally looking for a place to come to a stop as the leaders came up on them.
Again, Max Mosley screwed up the sport royally and I don't know if Jean Todt can quickly fix the problems. The reality is current F1 is a shadow of its former self and remains the pinnacle of motorsport not due to the FIA but rather the teams and engineers.
06-28-2010, 12:52 PM
#138
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Maybe it has something to do with the split-second nature of these cars. After all, any car that can decelerate at over 1G just by coming off the throttle....
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Larry Herman
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Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
06-28-2010, 01:16 PM
#139
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Technically? Financially/Commerically?
There were certainly "moments in time", like Senna's drive in the wet, etc, but those come and go and individuals like Senna transcend the sport itself....similar to Bobby Orr, Michael Jordan, etc.
The "sport" of F1 was probably better in the mid to late 80's, at least compared to the current 2010 season, at least from a competition perspective.
Clearly nothing that Max implemented has been beneficial to the sport IMHO.
06-28-2010, 01:19 PM
#140
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It is obviously much worse when you have an inexperienced driver who is uncomfortable in a car.
That having been said, you can put a driver into a "good" car like the Ferrari/Fisichella situation or Ferrari/Badoer situation and look what happens.
I don't view the current 'new' teams in the same light as I would the older/smaller teams like Minardi and Jordan.
06-28-2010, 02:06 PM
#141
Drifting
1 1 Ayrton Senna McLaren- Honda 73 1:47'48.264 1 9
2 28 Gerhard Berger Ferrari 73 + 27.051 2 6
3 2 Alain Prost McLaren- Honda 73 + 53.788 3 4
4 4 Jean Alesi Tyrrell-Ford 72 + 1 Lap 9 3
5 6 Riccardo Patrese Williams-Renault 72 + 1 Lap 6 2
6 30 Philippe Alliot Lola-Lamborghini 72 + 1 Lap 5 1
7 22 Andrea de Cesaris Dallara-Ford 72 + 1 Lap 15
8 11 Nelson Piquet Lotus-Judd 71 + 2 Laps 7
9 9 Derek Warwick Arrows-Ford 71 + 2 Laps 16
10 3 Jonathan Palmer Tyrrell-Ford 71 + 2 Laps 13
Ret 10 Eddie Cheever Arrows-Ford 61 Engine 22
Ret 20 Emanuele Pirro Benetton-Ford 59 Spun Off 10
Ret 21 Alex Caffi Dallara-Ford 55 Engine 23
Ret 7 Martin Brundle Brabham-Judd 51 Spun Off 8
Ret 15 Mauricio Gugelmin March-Judd 47 Collision 26
Ret 24 Luis Perez-Sala Minardi-Ford 47 Spun Off 20
Ret 5 Thierry Boutsen Williams-Renault 40 Fuel Pump 21
Ret 26 Olivier Grouillard Ligier-Ford 34 Engine 24
Ret 23 Pierluigi Martini Minardi-Ford 27 Spun Off 4
Ret 16 Ivan Capelli March-Judd 23 Transmission 19
Ret 37 Jyrki Jarvilehto Onyx-Ford 20 Gear Box 17
Ret 18 Piercarlo Ghinzani Osella-Ford 17 Gear Box 25
Ret 19 Alessandro Nannini Benetton-Ford 14 Spun Off 14
Ret 8 Stefano Modena Brabham-Judd 11 Electrical 12
Ret 17 Nicola Larini Osella-Ford 6 Suspension 11
Ret 12 Satoru Nakajima Lotus-Judd 0 Collision 18
DNQ 25 Rene Arnoux Ligier-Ford
DNQ 39 Pierre Henri Raphanel Rial-Ford
DNQ 38 Gregor Foitek Rial-Ford
DNPQ 40 Gabriele Tarquini AGS-Ford
DNPQ 36 Stefan Johansson Onyx-Ford
DNPQ 31 Roberto Moreno Coloni-Ford
DNPQ 29 Michele Alboreto Lola-Lamborghini
DNPQ 35 Aguri Suzuki Zakspeed-Yamaha
DNPQ 41 Yannick Dalmas AGS-Ford
DNPQ 34 Bernd Schneider Zakspeed-Yamaha
DNPQ 33 Oscar Larrauri Euro Brun-Judd
DNPQ 32 Enrico Bertaggia Coloni-Ford
2 28 Gerhard Berger Ferrari 73 + 27.051 2 6
3 2 Alain Prost McLaren- Honda 73 + 53.788 3 4
4 4 Jean Alesi Tyrrell-Ford 72 + 1 Lap 9 3
5 6 Riccardo Patrese Williams-Renault 72 + 1 Lap 6 2
6 30 Philippe Alliot Lola-Lamborghini 72 + 1 Lap 5 1
7 22 Andrea de Cesaris Dallara-Ford 72 + 1 Lap 15
8 11 Nelson Piquet Lotus-Judd 71 + 2 Laps 7
9 9 Derek Warwick Arrows-Ford 71 + 2 Laps 16
10 3 Jonathan Palmer Tyrrell-Ford 71 + 2 Laps 13
Ret 10 Eddie Cheever Arrows-Ford 61 Engine 22
Ret 20 Emanuele Pirro Benetton-Ford 59 Spun Off 10
Ret 21 Alex Caffi Dallara-Ford 55 Engine 23
Ret 7 Martin Brundle Brabham-Judd 51 Spun Off 8
Ret 15 Mauricio Gugelmin March-Judd 47 Collision 26
Ret 24 Luis Perez-Sala Minardi-Ford 47 Spun Off 20
Ret 5 Thierry Boutsen Williams-Renault 40 Fuel Pump 21
Ret 26 Olivier Grouillard Ligier-Ford 34 Engine 24
Ret 23 Pierluigi Martini Minardi-Ford 27 Spun Off 4
Ret 16 Ivan Capelli March-Judd 23 Transmission 19
Ret 37 Jyrki Jarvilehto Onyx-Ford 20 Gear Box 17
Ret 18 Piercarlo Ghinzani Osella-Ford 17 Gear Box 25
Ret 19 Alessandro Nannini Benetton-Ford 14 Spun Off 14
Ret 8 Stefano Modena Brabham-Judd 11 Electrical 12
Ret 17 Nicola Larini Osella-Ford 6 Suspension 11
Ret 12 Satoru Nakajima Lotus-Judd 0 Collision 18
DNQ 25 Rene Arnoux Ligier-Ford
DNQ 39 Pierre Henri Raphanel Rial-Ford
DNQ 38 Gregor Foitek Rial-Ford
DNPQ 40 Gabriele Tarquini AGS-Ford
DNPQ 36 Stefan Johansson Onyx-Ford
DNPQ 31 Roberto Moreno Coloni-Ford
DNPQ 29 Michele Alboreto Lola-Lamborghini
DNPQ 35 Aguri Suzuki Zakspeed-Yamaha
DNPQ 41 Yannick Dalmas AGS-Ford
DNPQ 34 Bernd Schneider Zakspeed-Yamaha
DNPQ 33 Oscar Larrauri Euro Brun-Judd
DNPQ 32 Enrico Bertaggia Coloni-Ford
06-28-2010, 05:57 PM
#142
Rennlist Member
Seems like there are two discussions going on here.
On the topic of when F1 was at pinnacle, we can discuss great eras of the past all day, but right now, this season, despite all the problems, we've really had some great races. More this year already than any recent season I can recall. It's really not so bad at all, is it? And the qualifying format is more exciting and safer than ever as well.
About lappers, whatever happened to "hold your line"? That's what we do, that's as it should be. The overtaking car is responsible. If the lapper is predictable, it's easy. I remember Alesi trying to get out of Berger's way (his own teamate at the time) at Monza and they crashed into each other. He was chastized for it. When did this change?
On the topic of when F1 was at pinnacle, we can discuss great eras of the past all day, but right now, this season, despite all the problems, we've really had some great races. More this year already than any recent season I can recall. It's really not so bad at all, is it? And the qualifying format is more exciting and safer than ever as well.
About lappers, whatever happened to "hold your line"? That's what we do, that's as it should be. The overtaking car is responsible. If the lapper is predictable, it's easy. I remember Alesi trying to get out of Berger's way (his own teamate at the time) at Monza and they crashed into each other. He was chastized for it. When did this change?
06-28-2010, 06:13 PM
#143
Rennlist Member
^^^^^yup what frank said^^^^^
Lewis, the rookie move was HK driving his mirrors and moving off line, and MW wasn't Heads up on an out... I wasn't talking about the use of the black flag, I was talking about developing the skillset to deal with and use lapped traffic as part of your racing strategy, some thing Webber has plenty of experience at from his sportscat and touring days...
No it's not LeMans; the driver skill should be even better and faster, and who would EVER come to a stop in a race?! WTF would that be for? Driving an open line even should be all it takes...
Lewis, the rookie move was HK driving his mirrors and moving off line, and MW wasn't Heads up on an out... I wasn't talking about the use of the black flag, I was talking about developing the skillset to deal with and use lapped traffic as part of your racing strategy, some thing Webber has plenty of experience at from his sportscat and touring days...
No it's not LeMans; the driver skill should be even better and faster, and who would EVER come to a stop in a race?! WTF would that be for? Driving an open line even should be all it takes...
06-28-2010, 06:23 PM
#144
Ironman 140.6
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Thread Starter
but right now, this season, despite all the problems, we've really had some great races. More this year already than any recent season I can recall. It's really not so bad at all, is it? And the qualifying format is more exciting and safer than ever as well.
About lappers, whatever happened to "hold your line"? That's what we do, that's as it should be. The overtaking car is responsible. If the lapper is predictable, it's easy. I remember Alesi trying to get out of Berger's way (his own teamate at the time) at Monza and they crashed into each other. He was chastized for it. When did this change?
About lappers, whatever happened to "hold your line"? That's what we do, that's as it should be. The overtaking car is responsible. If the lapper is predictable, it's easy. I remember Alesi trying to get out of Berger's way (his own teamate at the time) at Monza and they crashed into each other. He was chastized for it. When did this change?
06-28-2010, 06:32 PM
#145
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Best seasons, really? You guys have amnesia. 80% of the races this year have zero passing or Lewis who obviously takes more chances than anyone else doing all the passing. This season is boring compared to 2008. There was passing all over. Lewis vs Kimi at Spa was one of the best ever.
You guys are drinking the kool-aid. The best thing about this season is the fact that several drivers are still in contention, but let's not confuse that with great racing, because the VAST MAJORITY of passing we've seen is the backmarkers.
The rest of the time it's follow the leader, conserve fuel, save tires mode. That's not real racing.
You guys are drinking the kool-aid. The best thing about this season is the fact that several drivers are still in contention, but let's not confuse that with great racing, because the VAST MAJORITY of passing we've seen is the backmarkers.
The rest of the time it's follow the leader, conserve fuel, save tires mode. That's not real racing.
06-28-2010, 06:59 PM
#146
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Best seasons, really? You guys have amnesia. 80% of the races this year have zero passing or Lewis who obviously takes more chances than anyone else doing all the passing. This season is boring compared to 2008. There was passing all over. Lewis vs Kimi at Spa was one of the best ever.
You guys are drinking the kool-aid. The best thing about this season is the fact that several drivers are still in contention, but let's not confuse that with great racing, because the VAST MAJORITY of passing we've seen is the backmarkers.
The rest of the time it's follow the leader, conserve fuel, save tires mode. That's not real racing.
You guys are drinking the kool-aid. The best thing about this season is the fact that several drivers are still in contention, but let's not confuse that with great racing, because the VAST MAJORITY of passing we've seen is the backmarkers.
The rest of the time it's follow the leader, conserve fuel, save tires mode. That's not real racing.
I have to disagree with Ray again, this hasn't been the best season and in fact, has lacked something all along. I can't quite put my finger on it, maybe the new points system, I don't quite know, but it's not been as exciting as years past.
Dez, going back to Hamilton, yes in the past McLaren has been fined, but never Hamilton as no one could prove he used the Ferrari data to his advantage in 2007, but you have to admit that he has had more than his share of controversy this year and he gets away with it. It seems that JeanTodt is over compensating to make it appear that eventhough he is a former Ferrari Head, he is not going to penalize Hamilton/McLaren. The drive through penalty did not effect his position. A 10 sec. stop and go would have. I don't know about this season.
06-28-2010, 07:27 PM
#147
Its hard to support the conspiracy theory surrounding the drive through. The stewards would have considered the drive through a true penalty, and loss of track position, which in 99% of cases it would be. The liklihood of a drive through resulting in no loss of track position is diminishingly small, but either McLaren's strategy team is diabolically clever or they got very lucky. I can't remember a drive through where track position was maintained. Just bloody good luck, and its hard to fault the strewards for that.
06-28-2010, 09:07 PM
#149
uninformed gas bag
(contemplating on whether gas bag is one or two words)
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Its hard to support the conspiracy theory surrounding the drive through. The stewards would have considered the drive through a true penalty, and loss of track position, which in 99% of cases it would be. The liklihood of a drive through resulting in no loss of track position is diminishingly small, but either McLaren's strategy team is diabolically clever or they got very lucky. I can't remember a drive through where track position was maintained. Just bloody good luck, and its hard to fault the strewards for that.
06-28-2010, 09:27 PM
#150
I think the lack of refueling has had a big impact. How many times have we seen a leading car pit first and then the 2nd place car puts down a few amazingly fast laps and then pits. As the 2nd place car exits the pits, we're thinking "Will he come out ahead or behind the other car?". Without refueling, the weight vs speed strategies have been completely eliminated.