10 GT3

Interesting. This is the opposite of what I got from Collin and Mike Lowe back in March. I used to turn-in late and sharp. For example, for turn 6 I used to brake late and turn in sharp at the bottom of the hill then go pedal to the floor after turn-in. They moved me forward to turn in earlier and to get less steering input, but keeping it in longer. I have actually slowed down my steering input from direction. David Murray was pushing this weekend to turn in earlier and wind in steering slower through the front part of the turn. On 3 I do displace the entry Apex to get out for the second. I still feel like I am turning in early here as I am dialing in more steering mid-turn.

One thing that is very prominant in the GT3 as you can tell is the understeer in low speed corners. This is the one thing that surprised me when I got this car. It is probably from the extrra front weight. With the stock sway bar settings my first time out, I couldn't get it turn-in to hit an apex. I now have the front bar full soft and the rear full hard. It still pushes a lot in low speed corners, but gets more neutral as speed rises. I am getting adjustable end links next to get some of the pre-load off the front bar which should help.

Veloce Raptor

That's cool. I encourage everyone to try multiple approaches to multiple corners. There is IMO no "right" or "wrong", just different approaches. IMO David Murry is saying the same thing as I am in 3.

IMO if you load the car gradually & sooner as he and I suggest, you will reduce the imact of this understeer and load the rear wheels more rather than the front.







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ervtx

I think that a lot of instructors say "turn in sooner" when what they really mean is "turn in at the same time, but rotate the wheel more slowly at first, and more quickly as you approach the apex". In other words, "load the car gradually". And a lot of students think only in terms of turn in, apex and track out, w/o taking into consideration the rate at which the car is rotating between those points. For example, in the attached pic, both lines have the same turn in, apex and track out, but they have very different effects on the suspension.

I think that what Dave is saying is that you might want to try the red line vs. simply moving the blue line to an earlier turn-in.

By the way, the exit speed analog to "rotate the wheel more slowly at first, and more quickly as you near the apex" turns into "straighten the wheel more quickly at first, and more slowly as you approach the track out".

Veloce Raptor

Yup. And there's a third way, in which you would actually come alot closer to the first apex by starting the initial turn in sooner, and thus spend MUCH less real estate at the maximum amount of steering lock ie, max understeer & scrubbing off speed with front tires) you'd use for that complex.

I'll show you wnat I mean the next time I am at ECR.







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mglobe

This guy can explain it all for you...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxtN0xxzfsw

Veloce Raptor

Obama's speechwriter. A sure cure for insomnia.









Professional Racing and Driving Coach

mglobe

That's absurd Dave. He makes WAY too much sense to be writing for POTUS.

ervtx

This was the 1 run when I didn't have my in-car video set up, but I do have some stills from that run, including turns 8 and 9

jsh

"The first video is pretty boring as I spent about half the session running solo catching up with the back of the pack (i.e. putting them a lap down)."

10GT3 --- Dude, wonderful accomplishment when you're at 400hp and some of them are at 118hp (maybe?).......

Veloce Raptor

Russell, nice pics!









Professional Racing and Driving Coach

ervtx

Relax, the run group was so small that the last car out was merely a quarter lap behind the first guy.

Yeah, I found the zoom. Go figure. I've got several from the main event. For instance...

Veloce Raptor

Loren, in rereading my comments, I may have inadvertently used some confusing language. What I was trying to get at is that, in a number of corners in your videos, you are holdng and/or adding steering lock at & after apexes. This is driver, not car, and is adding to your perceived understeer.

The car does have a bit of understeer in it, but you are adding to it. In those corners, it would be to your benefit to get the car rotated sooner in the cornering sequence so that you are more able to unwind steering sooner and reduce perceived uundersteer (as well as front tire wear). So in those corners, I guess I am not in agreement with the advice you received that urged you to spend more real estate turning alot. Remember, the front tires change the car's direction. The rear tires steer the car. If you don't have enough initial direction change, getting back to gas early will only make the car plow more.

Again, this is situation-specific and corner-specific. But as you get better, you need to learn how to adapt to changing & challnging conditions, and adapt what you give the car in order for it to continue to give you what you want out of it.







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ervtx

How much of your observations on Lauren's steering lock past the apex is related to his steering adjustments for the 2nd apex of the double apex turns? I don't see him doing it that much at single-apex turns like T1, T2, T5, etc.

FWIW, I think that those damn double apex turns that are so predominant at ECR make it more difficult than usual for finding the steering inputs that best set the car up for throttle steering out of the turn. I made progress this weekend at T11 for example, but still have work to do on T6 and T9.

Veloce Raptor

I see it in quite a few of the single apex corners, too, in the videos he posted above. Look carefully, and don't get fooled by the right hand's movement downward--he keeps adding steering by shuffle steering, and a significant portion is at & past apexes.

This is not to rag on him--who here doesn't make mistakes every single lap?--but rather to point out in a learning fashiion that much of what he is concerned about regarding the car is actually being induced by the driver.

I agree WRT the doube apexes.







Professional Racing and Driving Coach

ervtx

The ones at ECR, or the ones in your avatar?