race911

Have I missed something in gleaning through this--don't bother with PCA? If a student is at the point where you're teaching advanced concepts, then why not a lightly attended private rental day? Funny how those days even end up costing less than the club days.............. Yeah, likely on a weekday, but is your goal to learn?

And to really nail the coffin shut for me with PCA, the low end DE's around here have some of the most open track you can imagine. Even in the Spec Miata I can be 2nd or 3rd quickest; and have absolutely NO problem moving through guys who are, for the most part, very courteous. Late last year I wanted to get some relevant data, so I basically ran my own little "race" in a 30 min. session. Turned out the time differential between my quickest and slowest laps was only about 2 seconds. There were probably about 15 cars on track, and maybe I had to pass half.

RSA333

PCA Driver's Education is fun, but it's not car racing. It's like comparing target shooting to a gun battle.

Stuttgart951

I cant speak for PCA, but two weekends ago at Summit Point (Shenandoah/BSR) the question of why students could not ride along with instructors during their lapping sessions was asked.

The answer was vague but, essentially, we were told it was an insurance issue. What was not clarified was whether it was on the side of the sponsoring organization (PCA/BMWCCA/etc) or the track, itself.

There must be some loophole in the policy because they got around it by scheduling "Instructor Demo Sessions" where students could, in fact, ride along with instructors.

I was grabbing lunch during this demo session (instructor's car was wrecked couple months back - brought his bike to the track) and did not witness the passing behavior but I would expect that it may have been slightly different than a true open session.

That said... I have been in the passenger seat with PCA instructors from one of the Northeast regions, at Northeastern tracks - neither of which shall be named for potential reasons of liability.

You do, in fact, learn a great deal. Specifically, you learn very quickly just how slow you really are and how much you have yet to learn. Not sure why it would be prohibited from an insurance standpoint as it seems to have a duel benefit - retarding student ego and accelerating their learning (and thus safety) curve.

Erik

MrBill, student ride along allowed in the Solo group, not the Super Solo group. Permission slip gets handed to trackworker at trackout, otherwise the 100# car would not be allowed out in the 200# group.

mrbill_fl

Gotcha,
I could use this at hmstd, in 2 wks...

Do I need a signoff from Joanne or just the pit out worker? (I'll be sure to ask her at check in)


-the open passing format really pays off at a track like Daytona....
Good thing Suncoast doesn't run that...
(I didn't realize they don't allow passing w/ a point... I think goldcoast could school those guys how its done... )

TREMPER

VR..my contact info is as follows...609.221.3854

Veloce Raptor

Thanks, about to head out of town, so can't call until maybe tomorrow.

-Dave









Professional Racing and Driving Coach

kurt M

you and I must have seen other things. I have seen more than one student make good setbacks after getting a ride that was not in the students range. properly done I see no problems at all but the temptation to drive hard and show off even just a little seems to be too great for some. what the hell we have threads on trains in the upper run groups. There are all kinds on track. I guess you have to gear to the standard rather than the top.

funny, I am doing most of my passes in the corners now. I love the pass anywhere with a point rule, the ride along issue aside. The white car is fast in the corners but a bit underpowered for Potomac's Red group. I bet there is a way to make ajustmments for good solid programs.

Erik

Shuster hands them out at the end of the Super Solo Meeting in the Am

James-man

That's the ticket. I am 100% behind this. I can't fathom why anyone wouldn't be.

fhp911

Listers,

I am not in favor of the PCA 'you get your half, and I get my half' of the road when there is instructor passing in the turns. I think that as an instructor (and I've been one for a long time) you can (or should be able to) handle 'sharing' the road and the line.

I also think that the rule forbidding having a passenger in the car if there will be passing in the turns is un-necessary. Just my opinion .... I don't know the data, but have there been incidents?

James-man

^
What can an instructor not convey to a student in a black run group that they can in the red run group?

Keep in mind that an advanced student is probably still a minimum of 2 years away from playing in the red group.

When safety is a concern, let's not wait for over-inspired students to create incidents when complete and appropriate passenger education can be gained in a lower run group.

race911

??? I'd done a dozen races after two years. (And believe me, that was starving college student budget limited.) Oh, and day 2 on track for me was an SCCA licensing school. And you guys wonder how you lose the enthusiasm of new people, and they seek out other venues? And I've been around track events from working/staffing/organizing/crewing/participating continually since 1980.

James-man

" probably a minimum of 2 years "

When a region only puts on 3 or 4 events a year, you have to go to other venues to progress quickly. Nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with progressing slowly either.

Probably.

Veloce Raptor

Enjoyed speaking with you, Pete. Many thanks for your time!









Professional Racing and Driving Coach