Upside Down In A Lemon's Race....
03-13-2010, 08:08 AM
#91
Nordschleife Master
To all the haters - I cannot tell you how many times I have heard these word at the end of a Lemons weekend:
"...that was the most fun I have had on four wheels in a long, long time."
And, most of the time those words come out of the mouths of experienced, amateur and pro racers alike. Before posting an opinion, I urge you to go experience Lemons for yourself and become educated on what it really is.
It is a blast, simple as that.
Regarding the crashes - it happens. In every single form of racing. It is the nature of what we do.
C.
"...that was the most fun I have had on four wheels in a long, long time."
And, most of the time those words come out of the mouths of experienced, amateur and pro racers alike. Before posting an opinion, I urge you to go experience Lemons for yourself and become educated on what it really is.
It is a blast, simple as that.
Regarding the crashes - it happens. In every single form of racing. It is the nature of what we do.
C.
03-13-2010, 09:20 AM
#92
Rennlist Member
Chad, please don't confuse my comments for "hate". I just take a dim view regarding such wanton disregard for basic wheel-to-wheel safety. Again, if this clown had suffered a basal skull fracture, I gar-on-tee his next of kin would have sued, and Lemons would disappear. And that would ruin the fun for everybody.
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
03-13-2010, 11:53 AM
#93
Rennlist Member
Same here.
Plavan, I must say the last stint of the day on Sunday was fantastic.
I was driving the Gulf Ford Escort and I diced with your car for 30-40 minutes straight.
I lost track of how many times we traded places.
As to LeMons. I've seen wrecks and rollovers in every form of racing, DE's and street driving.
People crash cars...
LeMons does not tolerate car to car contact and injuries are rare.
A typical SCCA/NASA/NASCAR weekend has wrecks, too.
I'm sure many of us have seen or heard about them, too.
The people that race LeMons are not bad people.
I've read a lot of judgmental posts in this thread. That's too, bad.
We're having fun.
KT
Plavan, I must say the last stint of the day on Sunday was fantastic.
I was driving the Gulf Ford Escort and I diced with your car for 30-40 minutes straight.
I lost track of how many times we traded places.
As to LeMons. I've seen wrecks and rollovers in every form of racing, DE's and street driving.
People crash cars...
LeMons does not tolerate car to car contact and injuries are rare.
A typical SCCA/NASA/NASCAR weekend has wrecks, too.
I'm sure many of us have seen or heard about them, too.
The people that race LeMons are not bad people.
I've read a lot of judgmental posts in this thread. That's too, bad.
We're having fun.
KT
. You guys did great looking at the results. Are you racing in May? My friend that owns that car is looking for 2 more drivers for the May thunderhill race if you know anyone.I'm going to be in a different car at the May race. a Mx-6 turbo..... It almost has twice the HP as that 82hp 323. I'm driving with some of my friends. These guys bought a car for the last TH race and are hooked. So hooked they bought a second car. So there will be 8 friends driving. I'll be helping them out and driving.
As for instruction, this is how I got hooked. I was called by a few guys (Porsche peep's) that I did not know last July. They offered me to race with them in their 323 if I would give them pointers, help them with the setup, and let them know what to expect (can you really know what to expect with a $500 car???). They were w2w rookies in a new car, and a few without any exp (2 raced the Reno race). Having never raced a Lemon race, and seeing the cars, I was not really sure if I wanted any part of it. I was reacting like some of you guys "I would never drive one of those cars". I finally accepted it, and said to myself that these poor bastards are asking for my help (And one was a mechanic! Score!!!). All I paid for that weekend was basically my share of gas and tires, they took care of everything else- Motorhome, food, etc)
We all met a few weeks before the race and went through the car. Replaced one Axel, egged out the strut holes for more camber, cut the springs to lower it, and did a nut and bolt check on everything (166K miles, 1.6L 4cyl) and just made sure the car was ready. The guy who built the cage was amazing. When I looked inside the car wondering about my safety, I saw this perfect cage, sad to say it looked better than what was in my Porsche race car, and that cage is good!
I went on a $900 shopping spree at Autozone.com. I bought everything I think may go bad in a two day race (Axles, caliper kits, master cylinder, tie rods, brake lines, clutch master Cly, ignition, radiator, hoses, sparkplugs, lugnuts, you name it, I bought it).
Friday practice day- I jumped in the car and took it out for about 6 laps to check all of our suspension "upgrades" lol. I was so damn impressed with that POS car. I was talking to the guys on the radio as they were watching- telling them what gear, and what speed to expect (no tach in the car). Letting them know they can go flat out in Talladega (Buttonwillow raceway) without getting scared because the car would hold. I also noted that there what some tire rub that needed to be addressed (with a sledge hammer), and that someone overfilled the oil because on heavy braking oil was going into the breather causing a classic Lemons smoke screen.
A long story short is that on day one we got hit a couple of times, all minor and expected with 140+ cars out on the track. The car held together. The only problem was when I would get in the car, they would have to lower the tire pressures....lol cuz I made those suckers scream!
We finished 4th in class and 19th overall and guess what...... I was able to return every single part, all $900 in parts, because the Mazda gods were watching over us.
Everyone should try a Lemons race once...... And wear your 38.1 SFI Head and neck device.
If anyone wants to drive the 323 in May at Thunderhill shoot me a PM- I'll email the owner. I think he has 2 spots left. Its an all inclusive deal that is very reasonable.(hotel, entry fee, food, tires, brakes etc). You just need your driver safety equipment.
03-13-2010, 01:17 PM
#94
The Penguin King
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
03-13-2010, 01:36 PM
#95
Mr. Excitement
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
No, I opened the door to the next one. What is enough?
You seem to have the answer of what is the right amount of safety.
10 years ago that setup was close to the gold standard of Am racing. The condition of the car had nothing to do with the wreck. The required cage did its job. You and I instruct in compromised systems every time we get in a car. Take a look at a Nascar CoT or other high end system sometime and then look at the systems we use in road racing. What? You are in a car that does not have CF impact absorption systems around the driver and full containment?
For me I think harness systems necessitate the use of H&N. Such systems have been available for what 20 years or so? Have you raced without one in the last 20 years?
I also see the need for having a bit of fun. What I have seen and read, Lemons is more fun than surfing for boobie pix anyday.
You seem to have the answer of what is the right amount of safety.
10 years ago that setup was close to the gold standard of Am racing. The condition of the car had nothing to do with the wreck. The required cage did its job. You and I instruct in compromised systems every time we get in a car. Take a look at a Nascar CoT or other high end system sometime and then look at the systems we use in road racing. What? You are in a car that does not have CF impact absorption systems around the driver and full containment?
For me I think harness systems necessitate the use of H&N. Such systems have been available for what 20 years or so? Have you raced without one in the last 20 years?
I also see the need for having a bit of fun. What I have seen and read, Lemons is more fun than surfing for boobie pix anyday.
03-13-2010, 02:16 PM
#96
Rennlist Member
No, I opened the door to the next one. What is enough?
You seem to have the answer of what is the right amount of safety.
10 years ago that setup was close to the gold standard of Am racing. The condition of the car had nothing to do with the wreck. The required cage did its job. You and I instruct in compromised systems every time we get in a car. Take a look at a Nascar CoT or other high end system sometime and then look at the systems we use in road racing. What? You are in a car that does not have CF impact absorption systems around the driver and full containment?
For me I think harness systems necessitate the use of H&N. Such systems have been available for what 20 years or so? Have you raced without one in the last 20 years?
I also see the need for having a bit of fun. What I have seen and read, Lemons is more fun than surfing for boobie pix anyday.
You seem to have the answer of what is the right amount of safety.
10 years ago that setup was close to the gold standard of Am racing. The condition of the car had nothing to do with the wreck. The required cage did its job. You and I instruct in compromised systems every time we get in a car. Take a look at a Nascar CoT or other high end system sometime and then look at the systems we use in road racing. What? You are in a car that does not have CF impact absorption systems around the driver and full containment?
For me I think harness systems necessitate the use of H&N. Such systems have been available for what 20 years or so? Have you raced without one in the last 20 years?
I also see the need for having a bit of fun. What I have seen and read, Lemons is more fun than surfing for boobie pix anyday.
10 years ago, Dale Earnhardt hadn't yet died of basal skull fracture from an impact that should have been 100% benign. So that is not a valid comparison.
When I instruct, there is no wheel to wheel competition going on, so that is not a valid comparison either.
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
03-13-2010, 02:22 PM
#97
Race Director
By far the best way to go is to find a team that has an already built-running car and join as a driver.....
03-15-2010, 11:12 AM
#98
Rennlist Member
03-15-2010, 07:43 PM
#99
Rennlist Member
.001 seconds after impact!
yes! we need to have a HANs on, or this might be one that we DONT walk away from.
and this was a relatively SLOW impact.
Scary stuff.
by the way, in the frame before, his normal sitting position puts his helmet about 1" from the roof, so this is very dramatic.
Mk
yes! we need to have a HANs on, or this might be one that we DONT walk away from.
and this was a relatively SLOW impact.
Scary stuff.
by the way, in the frame before, his normal sitting position puts his helmet about 1" from the roof, so this is very dramatic.
Mk
03-15-2010, 10:13 PM
#100
Race Director
Great photo...... Yes the rules say you "can" use a foam donut neck brace like the driver in this photo did....however most of my drivers use a HANS...between the 4 of us...we have two...soon to be 3....so we can always loan one out....for example I used Mark Andersons at the last race.....all you need is a helmet drilled with anchors.....another bonus is it makes the radio easier to attach!!!!
03-16-2010, 12:29 AM
#101
Rennlist Member
The things they allow in LeMons is pretty bad. Look at this picture and tell me how anything about the battery placement in this car is a good thing. We don't even have to discuss the cage, the battery should be plenty on it's own.
If an on track driving group, (I don't consider it racing), allows this, what else is allowed or overlooked ?
03-16-2010, 05:23 PM
#103
Race Director
I have been to and watched two of them, I have friends that participate, but with what I saw at the track and what I have seen in pictures of cars from the events I do not want any part of it.
The things they allow in LeMons is pretty bad. Look at this picture and tell me how anything about the battery placement in this car is a good thing. We don't even have to discuss the cage, the battery should be plenty on it's own.
If an on track driving group, (I don't consider it racing), allows this, what else is allowed or overlooked ?
The things they allow in LeMons is pretty bad. Look at this picture and tell me how anything about the battery placement in this car is a good thing. We don't even have to discuss the cage, the battery should be plenty on it's own.
If an on track driving group, (I don't consider it racing), allows this, what else is allowed or overlooked ?
Speaking purely from experience the lemons races I've been too on the west coast have STRICT tech-safety rules..... on par with any other race group.....about the only differences is lemons will allow stock-ish seats if they have a back support...in fact they REQUIRE a back brace for every seat...even FIA rated ones....anything over 6" to the crossbar requires a brace
in terms of DE events...they require FAR more.....not even close.... I have no doubts that the "estate" would pass tech for any group that does allows stock gas tanks & an automatic.....
Keep in mind many "lemons racers" fail tech...and have to do substantial improvements before they are allowed on track...so just because somebody thinks that will pass tech...doesn't mean it actually will.....
