JustinL

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/03/bu.../03toyota.html

Might make left foot braking more difficult...

krystar

no it wouldn't. u just disconnect the brake pedal sensor. since braking will never be brake-by-wire.

but just the idea is atrocious!

Bryan Watts

Highly unlikely that it will be that simple if it becomes mandated. Without a brake pedal sensor, it would more than likely either not start/run or go into limp mode that limits RPM/speed. I suspect it would take hacking the encrypted ECU software rather than just unhooking a sensor.

What we REALLY need is better driver training. The fact that most drivers would panic when the throttle sticks rather than simply turning the car off or shifting into neutral is proof of just how poorly prepared most drivers are. I managed to make it through T12 and T1 at Road Atlanta with a 100% stuck throttle in 5th gear...surely the average American can learn to shift a car into neutral and pull off to the side of the road with a stuck throttle at 70 mph on the highway?

ltc

I wouldn't say that.
There have been cars built and tested with brake by wire.
If an aircraft can have fly by wire, brake by wire is possible.

ltc

BTW, most cars already have throttle override systems...it's called putting it in Neutral or Park followed by turning off the ignition...

Scootin159

Is it just me, or isn't the bigger issue with the whole Toyota thing that it had a transmission lockout a > 50% throttle that prevented you from putting it into Neutral?

krystar

yea i know...i test drove a jaguar xkr. that thing can brake pretty hard on its own. i wonder how they do that....a hydraulic pump the master cylinder or something?

ltc

http://www.aa1car.com/library/2004/bf110412.htm

http://www.autoblog.com/2005/09/14/s...y-wire-system/

Potomac-Greg

Here's a great quote: "Without the system, a car’s computer might think a driver wants to keep accelerating, and ignore a driver’s efforts to depress the brake pedal and stop the car. Once the system is installed, it will stop the car if both the brake pedal and accelerator pedal are depressed."

How can a computer "ignore" me? What if the computer gets angry, or senses that you are going to de-activate it, and it begins a murderous effort to save itself? Cars would get together and defend themselves and coordinate development of defensive and offensive weapons with robotic computers.

PS: Audi pioneered the throttle interlock and it's only a problem if you are a two-footed driver.

Flying Finn

As I've said before, instead of going "forward", I'll go backwards.

With all this government crap, below are couple of examples of what my daily driver (besides my 993) most likely will look like few years from now...

krystar

we were just recently reminded of that situation. the camera on the Droid phone would go on the fritz on a regular 28 day cycle....turned out to be software bug in the end but it was getting alot of comments heh.

APKhaos

Based on what I heard in the congressional hearings, Scott's right. Above a limit speed, put the selector anywhere you like but the transmission will not shift to neutral or reverse.

A mech eng prof from Ohio testified that the Toyota ETCS used two TPS sensors that both generated the same signal [0-100% generates 0V-5V from each sensor]. Others that he had tested had two sensors that generated complimentary signals [0-100% throttle generates 0V-5V from one sensor, 5V-0V from the other]. Its obviously easier to detect a loss of one sensor signal using the second strategy, and not so much using Toyota's strategy.

Brake override makes sense, of course. It provides a strong fail-safe in the case of any throttle signal error. Cable-driven throttle systems might fail once in a while, but they have nowhere near the potential to screw up in unexpected ways that electronic throttle drives have.

cscrogham

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't current Porsches already have this feature? If you press on the brake while the accelerator is also pressed, you can do about a 2 count before the engine shuts off.
For example, try warming the brakes on a new 997 and see what happens. Then you have to wait a few seconds for everything to come back to life.

Bob Rouleau

Almost all cars using the Bosch system already have an engine over-ride. Certainly all Porsches with E-gas have it, likewise modern VW and Audis. Left foot braking is pretty much hopeless unless you lift off the gas, brake and then re-apply the gas. If you brake while pressing the gas pedal,the engine returns to idle after about 1 second. I foound this out the hard way while trying to maintain boost in my 2002 GT2. Spun the car as a result.

WHB Porsche

Sounds silly. Mandating brake override, while allowing cars to have a neutral lock-out, doesn't get to the root cause. If the brake lockout "fails" and you can't shift out of drive, you're still fooked.