disasterman

Roughly what does a "new" build run, north of $20k? What are the most important parts of a M car build that should be left to a pro?

dp35

$20K should get you a top notch pro built SM. If you include a pro motor and the kitchen sink, it should still be below $30K. I'm guessing ZBB0730's new beauty cost somewhere in that range.

I'd say the only really important part to have built by a pro is the cage. Outside of that, there's a thousand little details that they know about, each one might only add 0.01% in speed, but collectively they seem to make a real difference.

Its cheaper to buy an already built race car than to build one. But in that case you don't get everything done your way. I paid $7K for a decent car, and for maybe another $3-5K it might become a potential winner. We'll see...

Wreck Me Otter

Hah...they go up to ~$36K...includes kitchen sink...

TraqGear

Thanks VR!

Yep, will definitely have to relearn some skills at a momentum level.
Still got the helmet.
Thanks! And you are right...got the car, just have to work on the driver!
Have to thank Autometrics for that one...they are awesome. Drago is the Autometrics of the Miata world.
Mine was mid 30's. (I have a lot of bells and whistles) I could have got one cheaper, and I spent a HUGE amount of time analyzing different ways to go. I also raced at the AARC this past year and talked with literally almost everyone out there. But, Drago tears the donor completely apart and builds a new car. He knows the rules and keeps you legal, but does whatever he can to make the car as fast as possible from insuring no brake drag to using the lightest most precise spec wheels. He spends a huge amount of time testing different things and simply knows what will work and what won't. You can try and do it yourself, but it may take you a couple of seasons to really get a decent car. This one is fast right out of the box, and as mentioned before, I can focus on my driving skills and not worry if I have a car that is competitive. That means a lot to me. What is cool about Drago also is that he races himself and spec miata is how he makes his living, building cars. He doesn't provide support and do it as a sideline...building cars is what he does.

TraqGear

True, you can get a car with a pro motor for under 30k...I know where one is right now that is a decent car and ran up front last year. But, you will have a used car and in spec miata, used is REALLY used. I get the pleasure of putting every dent in mine, getting the seat exactly how I want, a great radio system, fire system, full traqmate and the list goes on. Once you add these kinds of things back to the build, it won't take long to get into the 30's. So, I could have used car, pretty much like I wanted for around 31 or a fresh build exactly like I want for 35. It was a no-brainer for me. Also, Drago can build them a little cheaper but I wanted the extras. And, there are some things that we are trying for the 1st time on my build that is proprietary that I can't share right now. That's another thing you pay for with a good build...lots of R&D.

924RACR

Holey Schnikes! That's more than I'm putting my DSR together for! Should be, what, like 30s faster at Road Atlanta?

Circuit Motorsports

Sorta defeats the purpose of running in a 'spec' class.

Drago build a great car. All the ones I've seen have been top notch.

TraqGear

That's a good point. In a perfect world, everything would be exactly the same and you would just rent your car kinda like the Panoz used to do. Unfortunately, it isn't a perfect world and all cars are a little different, even the ones you rent. In a low hp car, the little details make a big difference. For example, just a little brake drag can slow you down in these cars. Set up is also proprietary. I think you are paying for attention to detail more than anything else. A spec class is great, but it will make you put your thinking cap on. EVERY builder I talked to has proprietary things they do. Do you really think all spec boxsters are the same?

dp35

With all due respect, I think the numbers being thrown around in this thread represent the EXTREME high end of the range for Spec Miata costs.

I'm in a very competitive region, and the 2009 championship winning car is currently available for $12K without engine (and you know he'd take less). The best engines cost $6K. This is a 1990 car, fully equiped, built by a top builder, never crashed and only raced one season, which is nothing.

Another newly built 1990 SM with every trick possible recently sold for (I think) high teens. This car had only been raced a few times, just enough to prove it could win.

Good ready to race SM's are easy to find in the $10-$15K range, and average ones for $10K or less are even easier.

If someone wants every trick in the book, including a 1999 car, and they can afford it, then good for them. But to say that $30K+ is what you have to spend to race or even win in SM is a bit extreme IMO.

TraqGear

Point taken. But, if you'll take the time to look at my responses, you'll see that I mention, "all the bells and whistles", "full data, the seat I wanted, etc. etc.". And, it is a 99, which I wanted because it is easier to keep the weight down in a 99 for larger people.

Now as to your comment, "But to say...", well, I didn't see anyone say that except you. I'm merely sharing info with friends here on rennlist and presented what I found to be the best car I could get and have what I want. If you want to go buy the winning car, that doesn't have an engine and try to replicate his success, I would certainly like to see how you fair. There is a reason why there is no engine in that car.

The guy who won had a great car. Drago had two cars he built in the top 4 or 5. Pombo had a decent car also. These guys had more than just a good car though, they also have a heck of a lot of talent. If you think any of the guys in the top 5 didn't have a great car, you are sadly mistaken. But they also worked their butt off to get there in the talent dept. So, how did you do at the nationals last year?

PedalFaster

I couldn't agree more.

Your attempted dig actually makes his point. If the answer to your question isn't "in the top five, a few tenths a lap off of the guy who won", then your money's far better spent on more seat time, fresh tires every few events, and other things that aren't $35k new builds. The tricks and attention to detail that separate a $35k new build from your average $15k used Spec Miata might be worth a few tenths, but most of us are leaving seconds on the table due to other factors and are best served by focusing on those first.

Not criticizing you for spending that much, but your post implies that $35k is the cost of entry into SM, and I can't agree with that.

TraqGear

Look, I will make this as clear as I can. I'm by no means saying that you have to spend $35k to run spec miata or to win for that matter. People have done it for much less. But for ME, rather than spend the time to figure out the car and sort it, etc, I would rather spend the $35k, get exactly the car, the color, the engine, everything I want and just simply work on my driving, without having to worry if my car is good enough.

dp35

ZBB -
I'm sorry if my words offended you and your car choice. That's the last thing I wanted to do. If I had the funds, I'd have a SM exactly like yours, same colors even.

When people started comparing the cost of SM with DSR racing, I thought someone needed to set the record straight.

Good luck with your racing, and please share your race results/experiences with us here.

Circuit Motorsports

If you want to do it right the first time around and not run a beatup 100K motor you'd be hard pressed to do it much under 20K, especially with a 99. Just the car and pro motor will put you over 10K. That doesn't include the Spec Miata required parts which at a minimum are about 2K IIRC. Plus safety equipment (seat belts, nets, etc.), plus redoing the things that should be done like calipers, suspension bushings, etc. Then add data and a radio. Don't forget things like a QD steering wheel. Oh and a pesky cage. 2-4K depending on how custom you want. This doesn't begin to add in the labor of building it.

Yes you can build a car for under 10K but there is no way it will be in top shape and it will need to be taken care of a LOT more than one that has new everything. It sucks to miss a day at the track because of something that you could have been proactive about and replaced.

As has been said it's always cheaper to buy than build. SM is no different but it sure is nice to know the life of everything on the car from the beginning.

My only beefs with Spec Miata are the fact that it isn't really spec and people go to the class expecting Spec and then realize that there are 'proprietary' things beyond setup. Right now they're going through a fiasco of what is 'tech shed legal'. It ain't legal but the tech shed can't prove it type attitude. It's sad but as a class gets more popular (like SM) that happens. If Spec Boxster keeps growing the same things will happen unless the rules get very well written which is tough if you don't have the ability to have a single supplier, sealed motors, and the infrastructure to maintain and test that equipment.

And the 35K DSR is at the extremely low end for car's nowadays and what Vaughn isn't taking into account I'm guessing is the cost of his labor. There were guys who spent more on that in motors for the Runoffs in years past.

mooty

rog, i know dp35 well. his words didnt come across right on internet board. but he means well. i know it.

i am on the same boat as you, rog, i dont like UGLY cars no matter how fast they are. i much rather drive a pretty and slow car than a fast ugly car. as agassi said once, image is EVERYTHING. i want to lose pretty not win ugly.

that said, my BSR is at least 25% more than the next legal BSR. why... well, i like a pretty car. everything is replaced and i even changed the color of my dash board, barbie pink my fav.

you dont need a high dollar car to win, but it's nice to have a high dollar car. good luck in your SM racing.

dp, can't wait to see you in SM. if you ever DE it, i now have a chance to pass you hahaha!