multi21

Like Grant said, computers are only as good as the humans that make them that's why CFD and windtunnels are only "so good" until you get on track.

A couple years back, one of the teams (IIRC Red Bull?) had terrible cooling problems with their engine because of alterations in their body work for better aero. And that was with an engine that they knew fit in their car. Everything on the USF1 car is new.

It's going to be interesting to see how the Cosworth engine matches with the multiple teams (ie. brand new team like USF1 vs. a well established team like Williams) You just never know and that's why testing and more testing and more testing is vital.

Flying Finn

Pete's right, computers can do only so much and when it comes to engine and mating them to different chassis (remember, engine and tranny in F1 car does more than just provides movement, think suspension etc) is something you need to try for real. There can be unexpected issues, not only with cooling but with vibrations etc.

It was Red Bull who had cooling issues as all the cars Adrian Newey designs, always do. He hates cooling as it ****s up the aero so there's always some issues between cooling & best aero with his cars!

I wonder how many teams will shop up at 1st test, we know USF1 has problems, Campos too and Lotus has a shortage of spares so they won't be there either. It pretty damn hectic to try an start a new team!

ajcjr

Well it just seems they are way behind in there project schedule. And its not there fault but just getting the motors now, they may have to go back to the drawing board, relying on only simulation.

And i hope its not, i for one would love to see the US go out and kick @ss. It just seems that right now they are way behind.

And i could have built them a nice Big Block Ford if they wanted LOL

race911

How much time did Brawn have last year to do what it needed to do in switching from the Honda engine?

chris walrod

+1 -- despite the 'funny' images, I really do hope they are successful and eventually competitive. I fear this being a one or two year attempt.

Yes, they are waay behind. The lateness of engine delivery isnt whats holding them up.

We've been in these very similar situations and I know all to well what its like.

multi21

Appx. 3 months from the time Brawn bought the operation from Honda for $1 to the time of the 1st race. The rules were different last year where you could test after Jan. 1. This year it's Feb. 1.

Aside from the Double Diffuser that has been talked about extensively here helping Brawn to a great start in 2009, it appears the MB drivetrain was a good fit in their car right from the start.

When the double diffuser was ruled to be legal by the FIA about 4 races in, a lot of teams had to change the entire rear end of their car to fit the DD.

I want USF1 to be operational on Feb. 1 because testing is SOOOO important, but I fear there will be changes made to the rear end of the car for this powerplant.

No offense to those in the North Carolina area, but it seems like those from NC are the most critical of others on this board about being negative about USF1. I believe we all want them to be successful, but we have to be realistic and first know that they are going to be a backmarker right off the bat. Second, there is a real possibiliy at this point they will not be on grid at Bahrain and perhaps run a partial season.

The fact remains that it's the middle of January and they just finished the FIA nose crash test (Positive), and are about to receive their engine (a little late). The fact it's Janaury 13th and they have not named a single driver is seriously negative.

ajcjr

I am not being negative about the project, i think i am being realistic. I do construction for a living and every customer wants everything done in 8 weeks, well its going to take 6 weeks to fabricate your custom millwork and glass panels!

Yes Brawn did it, but he had a chassis he could work on, he bought a motor from mclaren who had running motors with a championship season the year before. Wea re talking about starting from scratch in the USA. I thnk the challenge is a tad different than Brawns last year. But that is just my .02.

multi21

There is no comparison between Brawn and USF1.

1. Honda was working on their 2009 car a year in advance.

2. The Honda operation never shut down production when Honda pulled out of F1 because of English labor laws made it awash on paying redundant workers or keeping them working until a buyer could be found.

3. Needless to say, the Brawn operation had everything in place, including very experienced drivers that could have started on grid the day of the 1st race and been fine.

I hate to say it, but I think we're going to be disappointed on whom the drivers will be for USF1 once they are named.

ltc

Jose Maria Lopez (based on reports that Rob Wilson has agreed to spend some time working with him...believe it or not, some kids in karting are actually coached by Rob Wilson, which I find amazing, but I digress) is likely to be one of the drivers.

chris walrod

+1 -- despite the 'funny' images, I really do hope they are successful and eventually competitive. I fear this being a one or two year attempt.

Yes, they are waay behind. The lateness of engine delivery isnt whats holding them up.

We've been in these very similar situations and I know all to well what its like.

rickmdz

Correct. See my post on the other thread

Maybe all the disbelief in this forum is because they didn't use a Rennlist coach...

multi21

LOL!!! VR's quote was too high and he wanted lunch included...

Cory M

Not to mention discrepant parts that you have to use because you have none that meet the print, supplier delays, tolerance stacks, material and heat treat issues, manufacturing and assembly issues (like parts moving when you braze/weld/heat treat), things not working as designed, assembly issues, modal response, unknown resonant frequencies, thermal analysis predictions are wrong, fatigue, and on and on

The computer is a tool, nothing more, and it is a tool operated by humans so there is plenty of room for error. At the end of the day all engineers have to make assumptions, and the solutions they come up with are their "best guess". Sometimes things don't work as planned, and all changes have secondary effects, especially in an environment as competitive as F1 where parts are optimized to the edge of their material limits. This is why testing is critical.

brendo

my point was addressing the fact that they'll fit, per se. sure there will be many mods to be made to accommodate cooling and rigidity, i would assume also.

Flying Finn

+1!

They always talk about CAD computers, 3-D etc. but in the end, whether CAD or some other computer aided design method, in the end, it is just a pen (I work in design and for some of the work, use CAD).
Makes designing in many cases (not all), easier and more accurate etc. but it doesn't mean "computer has designed it" and it now has no errors.