dave morris

OK, I'll bite. Why's that???

mrbill_fl

^ add: SCCA, NASA, and PBOC.

-I just don't get what this thread is about.

You'll pissed the belts expire? or someone enforces the rules?


Oh yeah, did they check for seat braces and dates on race seats? or they left out that page in the GCR?

Veloce Raptor

We're astounded that race belts, in DE cars, are deemed by some self-appointed "expert" to be "expired" after just 2 years, whereas 20 year old OEM seat belts are just fine.

That is the definition of insanity.

On a lighter note, this may be the best Halloween costume of 2009.





Professional Racing and Driving Coach

mrbill_fl

That looks more like OOOGLE!

like I said before, those damn PHD's and engineers keep wasting my money on safety equipment!
the issue is really Why are (some) race tech rules applied to HPDE cars. (NJ)

it has nothing to do with a cop...

So the question is WHY should Race tech rules NOT apply to a DE car?

Those arguments are missing from the 17 pages of this thread...
(hard to defend what is NOT needed, in regards to safety... )



-I think that reason is you open up DE cars to even more safety rules getting applied....

Veloce Raptor

Because there is no reason for them to, when OEM equipment can be decades old & still "OK". The double standard is mind-boggling.






Professional Racing and Driving Coach

SundayDriver

I think if you step back, it is not that crazy at the track/sanctioning body level.

First, I DO NOT agree with a lot of the regs and positions, but they are in place. SFI has said that competition belts, certified by them, are good for 2 years. Assume, for a moment, that they really did testing and the belts loose a lot of strength after 2 years. If that is the case, then why would a DE car be different than a race car? The belts would be weak in both cases and should be replaced. (Again, I do not tend to believe this is real, but it is what SFI is essentially saying.) DOT, on the other hand, has made no such assertion about OEM belts.

So if you are in risk management, you see there is significant liability risk if you ignore the SFI position and allow belts beyond their rating. From that perspective, I don't see it as a double standard (but I do think, from a strictly technical perspective to be a double standard).

The culprit here is not the sanctioning body or track, it is SFI. Now why NJ has to play nanny and regulate this at the state level is BS, IMO. But I don't live in NJ and have no influence with votes in that state.

So until the state decides to get out of the compliance business, the laws are a reality and they are based on the so-called (but the only think we have) experts in safety. When SFI did the 2 year rule, they started the need for various groups to follow their specs.

In our litigious society, I bet you would have a strong case against the DE organizers if they allowed SFI belts beyond the SFI published expiration date. They intentionally ignored the 'experts' and may well have committed gross negligence.

Again, I don't agree that the 2 year rule is good, nor do I think it was based on good science, but it is the published stand of SFI.

TREMPER

The Harness Standard states that if you chose to put a harness in your car, the harness must be replaced every five years..It is the same time limit used by our Club Race Program. When the driver runs out of talent and the belts may be needed to save the driver from harm, the car and belts do not deferentiate between CR and DE..an impact is an impact...

Bull

How can racers and track junkies sit by and allow this "nanny" environment to be continued by rating organizations, sanctioning bodies, car clubs, tracks, etc. I say man up and boycott the lot of them...or you can go along like sheep!

butzip

No that's the 'brown flag'

kurt M

You are right, I missspoke in my post and will correct.

SundayDriver

So do I have this right - PCA allows 5 year life on SFI harnesses, even though SFI says 2 years?

kurt M

Bingo. In DE advanced safety systems are not required but are desired.
This make it a little bit harder to get a DE guy to improve his system. I have seen some that have removed their 5 or 6 points using the "I only do 2 or 3 DEs a year and don't want to shell out another $600 for another 2 sets of belts" or some other reason. (I disagree with this thinking and am just reporting some unintended results)
I have seen belts that are showroom new but out of date removed and not replaced. In racing the driver HAS to use in date advanced safety system belts or he can't race. In DE with the same car he can use the DOT 3 points that came with the car. Lets do all that we can to get DE guys to improve the systems in their cars.

mrbill_fl

I can only imagine the bitchfest that must have occured when SeatBelts were 1st required... from all those drovers wanting to be thrown free from the wreck.

The argument is that HPDE cars don't need the safety gear that racers need. hmm yeah OK.

I didn't hear much bitching from RACERS when rt side nets were required, or H&N restraints... why's that?

my belts were FIA approved and ran > 650/pair and last 5 yrs. thats $130/yr...
I look at it as insurance... just doesn't seem like much money to save my ***.

and thats coming from a really cheap bastard!

as my Dad use to say:
God only gave you one ***, and damn if that doesn't already have a hole in it, you better take care of it....

Veloce Raptor

And yet 20+ year old OEM seat belts are OK? Wow...genius! Utter genius!!!






Professional Racing and Driving Coach

Larry Herman

Hey, don't worry about it anymore. Besides lowering taxes and improving services and bringing businesses back to NJ, Chris Christie will reduce the amount of government in our lives too, so I'm certain that this is one of his top priorities.