Ugh - sorry Mark
09-08-2009, 03:52 PM
#46
Rennlist Member
Dont worry Dave, I am completely clear on that. After something like this, everyone's true colors come though, so I appreciate the note and message. And what you say now, even after all the bantering and misunderstandings, is perfectly clear so dont worry. Dave, your picture with bent wheels locking up into the trap was obvious for the cause. spinning backwards on the main straight? Yeah, we all know you had some help. I give you a hard time, because you are so damn good with picture-posts when you go on the attack in our discussions 
Serously, it was stupid of me to get so comfortable that I felt I could not put on the H-N Restraint this weekend. Mine is a hassle as it isnt like the newer stuff, but regardless and that's no excuse. It will be on next time I hit the track in a race, and probably will upgraded to the new stuff. Its like everyone is saying, the time you DONT use it, is the time that not only will you be in an accident, but its the type of accident where you would need it( like straight into a wall at 100mph.). I almost have tears of joy, thinking how lucky I was that the type of crash didnt leave me more injured. I have video. (not of the crash, battery died 1 lap before), and it shows me lapping that same car in the EXACT same place on the track 5min earlier, yes lapping every 5 mins!. I saw the wall I hit from that video, and it was the only section that had about 60 feet of tires. Im convinced the tires saved me.
The only problem now, is getting the "would have, could have, should have" voices out of my head. (And I wish I could stand up without grunting )
Thanks you guys, I really appriate the concern, help and words of wisdom/perspective.
Mark
Serously, it was stupid of me to get so comfortable that I felt I could not put on the H-N Restraint this weekend. Mine is a hassle as it isnt like the newer stuff, but regardless and that's no excuse. It will be on next time I hit the track in a race, and probably will upgraded to the new stuff. Its like everyone is saying, the time you DONT use it, is the time that not only will you be in an accident, but its the type of accident where you would need it( like straight into a wall at 100mph.). I almost have tears of joy, thinking how lucky I was that the type of crash didnt leave me more injured. I have video. (not of the crash, battery died 1 lap before), and it shows me lapping that same car in the EXACT same place on the track 5min earlier, yes lapping every 5 mins!. I saw the wall I hit from that video, and it was the only section that had about 60 feet of tires. Im convinced the tires saved me.
The only problem now, is getting the "would have, could have, should have" voices out of my head. (And I wish I could stand up without grunting
)Thanks you guys, I really appriate the concern, help and words of wisdom/perspective.
Mark
As many have said in other threads, when you race, it's not a magtter of IF you will be involved in some sort of collision. It's WHEN.
Count your blessings (I'm sure you already have).
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
09-08-2009, 06:00 PM
#47
Rennlist Member
Well said and more than well recieved. Thanks!
Just focus on the fact that your family got to see you come home, alive, with all you limbs attached. All else is irrelevant.
As many have said in other threads, when you race, it's not a magtter of IF you will be involved in some sort of collision. It's WHEN.
Count your blessings (I'm sure you already have).
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
As many have said in other threads, when you race, it's not a magtter of IF you will be involved in some sort of collision. It's WHEN.
Count your blessings (I'm sure you already have).
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
09-08-2009, 06:28 PM
#48
Rennlist Member
I guess next time Scot needs a hand to rebuild his engine, Ill tell him to take a hike,and do it himself like Brendan C. would. Is that what I should do? Now, why wouldnt I do this? Because its worth it to me to help out a fellow racer, especially one with a 928, because I know how to help AND I love the car and like to see it racing. I know you are a car guy, but you are not talking like one now and that's strange. Sometimes we help our fellow racers out. I dont expect any help through this, but already I have got some offers from racer friends to help get back on the track. I just got a phone call from someone offering a free car for the rest of the season. Dont know if I can accept that, but he is pushing hard. wonder why?? Do you have a clue? I don't know if you race, but if you have, you should understand the fraternity of racers and the things they often do.
Hey, I can get through all your ****-ness about how I put it the 8k motor together, but trust me, I was on the phone and emailing Greg Brown, as well as the engine builders themselves about everything I should do to make this engine work right. There was even 928list debate, right up to the head bolt tightening, where I did things the engine builder advised way and it all ended up fine. (folks that didnt had MAJOR issues with cometic gaskets).
Bottomline, whats your point? You dont want to help, thats fine. Sometimes people like to help. Who cares if it is money or time, it feels good to give. I just wish I could give it all back double! In the balance sheet of life, thats how you see if you made a profit in life, in my opinion. What would you charge for building 2 engines, and tearing out 4 for a fellow racer? Why did I do it? I told you, to help a fellow 928er that needed a hand to keep racing.
Hobby or not. who cares. Is making money what defines that? By definition, hobbyists do something for pleasure, or relaxation. Do you think all "pro" racers make money or a living with their cars? If they do it for pleasure, and dont make any money, are they hobbyists? If they lose money are they charities? (most do by the way) I would like to see WC teams balance sheets after a season of speedGT. Is there money involved? Well, that certainly would change my status as I do have an obligation to race for the community that assisted me with the motor. Go call an olympic athlete a "hobbyst" and see his/ reaction. I take this sport seriously, and it takes a lot of my time. I do it for the sport, and do it for free and certainly would do it for pay, but that will probably not happen. Many here race the same reasons as I do and I would not call them, Hobbyists. Kind of insulting dont you think? There is more money spent in some club racing that in some pro, is one more "serious or better than the other" And not that it matters, but I think you are just trying to put down to make yourself feel better.
Hey, I can get through all your ****-ness about how I put it the 8k motor together, but trust me, I was on the phone and emailing Greg Brown, as well as the engine builders themselves about everything I should do to make this engine work right. There was even 928list debate, right up to the head bolt tightening, where I did things the engine builder advised way and it all ended up fine. (folks that didnt had MAJOR issues with cometic gaskets).
Bottomline, whats your point? You dont want to help, thats fine. Sometimes people like to help. Who cares if it is money or time, it feels good to give. I just wish I could give it all back double! In the balance sheet of life, thats how you see if you made a profit in life, in my opinion. What would you charge for building 2 engines, and tearing out 4 for a fellow racer? Why did I do it? I told you, to help a fellow 928er that needed a hand to keep racing.
Hobby or not. who cares. Is making money what defines that? By definition, hobbyists do something for pleasure, or relaxation. Do you think all "pro" racers make money or a living with their cars? If they do it for pleasure, and dont make any money, are they hobbyists? If they lose money are they charities? (most do by the way) I would like to see WC teams balance sheets after a season of speedGT. Is there money involved? Well, that certainly would change my status as I do have an obligation to race for the community that assisted me with the motor. Go call an olympic athlete a "hobbyst" and see his/ reaction. I take this sport seriously, and it takes a lot of my time. I do it for the sport, and do it for free and certainly would do it for pay, but that will probably not happen. Many here race the same reasons as I do and I would not call them, Hobbyists. Kind of insulting dont you think? There is more money spent in some club racing that in some pro, is one more "serious or better than the other" And not that it matters, but I think you are just trying to put down to make yourself feel better.
09-08-2009, 07:09 PM
#49
Are we curing Cancer? Racing for a Cure of Egoism?
As I said in the other thread, I am done. You can write your pages upon pages of el-presidente of the 928 charity racer club now, and I will try very hard to not respond. Everybody is happy.
Just go forth and prosper (with other people's stuff, to be sure) but remember when you are driving a donated tub with a charity engine - that its about the idea of a 928 on track that has people shelling out. Not you. Once the holbert car is gone, you will just be a hobby racer in a borrowed tub and a charity engine - to accomplish what?
09-08-2009, 07:32 PM
#50
Prophetic and ironic
Thanks guys, Its been a tough couple of day, and this helps!
Ill take the advice and get another check up this week. VR, you are right, it was really dumb to go out there without the H-N restraint. I have a lot of neck muscle pain right now, and I bet there would have been none if I was wearing one yesterday! I just hope the back pain goes away soon! The whole thing just sucks. Man, what we put ourselves through for the love of the sport. This is going to be a real tough road back though.
Thanks again,
Mark
Ill take the advice and get another check up this week. VR, you are right, it was really dumb to go out there without the H-N restraint. I have a lot of neck muscle pain right now, and I bet there would have been none if I was wearing one yesterday! I just hope the back pain goes away soon! The whole thing just sucks. Man, what we put ourselves through for the love of the sport. This is going to be a real tough road back though.
Thanks again,
Mark
It all reminds me of a time I was on a test day with my race car in the early days, and I was wondering if I should bother by putting on the driving suit. I was chatting with a cornerworker at the time and he said something pretty relavant to the discussion and something that will stick with me forever. " Do you think fire knows if you are testing or in a race". Needless to say, I put on the racing suit.
You never need any of the safety equipment until you need it. I remember our DE being really competitive, and there were just as many "battles" as some of my first races. in fact, with nasa, it was even more crazy. nascar, formula cars, open wheeler or not, superproduction and miatas, even those mini nascars powered by motorcycle engines. it was nuts out there! Time trial, in practices is probably more dangerous, as you have serous drivers with new drivers, all going as fast as they can with the full spectrum of performance levels. The speeds were near as fast and sometimes faster than the races. If you are cooking the brakes of a stock car, driven at 11/10s and they fail, you could end up like that 350Z. I think its up to the owner to understand the risks and put in the safety equip that matches his performance level. (both car and driver). I dont know how they can regulate and equate the safety of a stock miata vs a ZR1 in a time trial, but I dont know about you, but I dont want to be in a 800hp subaru with no rollbar or firesuit going 140mph on the track on street tires .
__________________
Mark Kibort
Al Holbert -928Intl. Porsche 928S4
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you are going to talk the talk, you need to walk the walk
Sorry for your loss and good luck on getting running again
Greg Phillips
09-08-2009, 07:39 PM
#51
Rennlist Member
Brendan,
Are you really that angry? Do you read what you are saying below. Are you saying no one has ever helped you out with your racing or your car projects. by the way, do you or have you ever raced? curious.
Ill let others chime in to level set your rant message.
Trust me, i would be very surprised if anyone that did lend a hand with the holbert car engine project was disappointed with the outcome of the build and its record on the track, after its build.
Racing a 928 Brendan, thats it . Thats all anyone wanted, and subsequently its the only 928 that has run full racing seasons, 7 in a row, never missing a race.
Did i offer to cure cancer, win SpeedGT? No, the only goal was to run full seasons in a mixed class club venue. Guess what, that was good enough for many as that was the deal. Are you questioning all that helped. Are you questioning me helping Scot with his project, 4 engine replacments later?
So, as far as donated engine, part right. (half donated). As far as donated tub, not to take anything from that tremendous help, but Mark A. will usually toss the tub in the garbage after its stripped. He doesnt keep tubs, did you know that? BUT, what mark at 928Intl is helping me with, because he is a good friend, for who I would do most anything for if he asked, he will give me a good deal on the stuff he needs on the rolling chassis, probably more in the spirit of keeping 928s out there racing. Mark is a pretty generous guy and usualy works out some pretty good deals for customers with unique requirements. He can get creative to make things work for his customers.
Ive wasted too much time on you already. Go find another argument.
Are you really that angry? Do you read what you are saying below. Are you saying no one has ever helped you out with your racing or your car projects. by the way, do you or have you ever raced? curious.
Ill let others chime in to level set your rant message.
Trust me, i would be very surprised if anyone that did lend a hand with the holbert car engine project was disappointed with the outcome of the build and its record on the track, after its build.
Racing a 928 Brendan, thats it . Thats all anyone wanted, and subsequently its the only 928 that has run full racing seasons, 7 in a row, never missing a race.
Did i offer to cure cancer, win SpeedGT? No, the only goal was to run full seasons in a mixed class club venue. Guess what, that was good enough for many as that was the deal. Are you questioning all that helped. Are you questioning me helping Scot with his project, 4 engine replacments later?
So, as far as donated engine, part right. (half donated). As far as donated tub, not to take anything from that tremendous help, but Mark A. will usually toss the tub in the garbage after its stripped. He doesnt keep tubs, did you know that? BUT, what mark at 928Intl is helping me with, because he is a good friend, for who I would do most anything for if he asked, he will give me a good deal on the stuff he needs on the rolling chassis, probably more in the spirit of keeping 928s out there racing. Mark is a pretty generous guy and usualy works out some pretty good deals for customers with unique requirements. He can get creative to make things work for his customers.
Ive wasted too much time on you already. Go find another argument.
Who am I putting down? Did I berate you in any way? If people want to send into charity enough money to field a 3 car F1 team, thats just fine. No Problem - its their decision. But they should all know the whole picture of what you represent, and how you portray. From the rest of your post, it seems like you firmly believe you are the second coming of Jesus Christ Super Star Charity Racer, in his technicolor Dream coat Race Car.
Are we curing Cancer? Racing for a Cure of Egoism?
As I said in the other thread, I am done. You can write your pages upon pages of el-presidente of the 928 charity racer club now, and I will try very hard to not respond. Everybody is happy.
Just go forth and prosper (with other people's stuff, to be sure) but remember when you are driving a donated tub with a charity engine - that its about the idea of a 928 on track that has people shelling out. Not you. Once the holbert car is gone, you will just be a hobby racer in a borrowed tub and a charity engine - to accomplish what?
Are we curing Cancer? Racing for a Cure of Egoism?
As I said in the other thread, I am done. You can write your pages upon pages of el-presidente of the 928 charity racer club now, and I will try very hard to not respond. Everybody is happy.
Just go forth and prosper (with other people's stuff, to be sure) but remember when you are driving a donated tub with a charity engine - that its about the idea of a 928 on track that has people shelling out. Not you. Once the holbert car is gone, you will just be a hobby racer in a borrowed tub and a charity engine - to accomplish what?
09-08-2009, 08:03 PM
#52
Rennlist Member
Brendan,
I hear your side and point of view. Thank you kindly for letting me know. Now that I know what you think, no reason to keep posting, except to to argue.
Mark
I hear your side and point of view. Thank you kindly for letting me know. Now that I know what you think, no reason to keep posting, except to to argue.
Mark
09-08-2009, 11:26 PM
#55
The Penguin King
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Just a word about track people and helping each other out.
I had a 13 this year. My fault, and it did a fair amount of damage. Folks were amazingly nice to me both in helping me understand what happened and how I could avoid it in the future, and also in getting the car back together. A friend GAVE me an extra set of headlights he had sitting around. Just GAVE them to me. By far, the majority of folks you meet at the track, and in particular the racers, are the most generous and helpful folks you'll ever meet. If Mark can get help rebuilding his car, it speaks well not only of the folks helping him, but also of Mark himself. We give him all sorts of crap here on the interweb, some probably deserved, some probably not, but in real life, I'll bet he's a good guy. If he were an asshat, folks would not be offering to help him get back to racing.
I had a 13 this year. My fault, and it did a fair amount of damage. Folks were amazingly nice to me both in helping me understand what happened and how I could avoid it in the future, and also in getting the car back together. A friend GAVE me an extra set of headlights he had sitting around. Just GAVE them to me. By far, the majority of folks you meet at the track, and in particular the racers, are the most generous and helpful folks you'll ever meet. If Mark can get help rebuilding his car, it speaks well not only of the folks helping him, but also of Mark himself. We give him all sorts of crap here on the interweb, some probably deserved, some probably not, but in real life, I'll bet he's a good guy. If he were an asshat, folks would not be offering to help him get back to racing.
09-09-2009, 03:47 AM
#57
Just a word about track people and helping each other out.
I had a 13 this year. My fault, and it did a fair amount of damage. Folks were amazingly nice to me both in helping me understand what happened and how I could avoid it in the future, and also in getting the car back together. A friend GAVE me an extra set of headlights he had sitting around. Just GAVE them to me. By far, the majority of folks you meet at the track, and in particular the racers, are the most generous and helpful folks you'll ever meet. If Mark can get help rebuilding his car, it speaks well not only of the folks helping him, but also of Mark himself. We give him all sorts of crap here on the interweb, some probably deserved, some probably not, but in real life, I'll bet he's a good guy. If he were an asshat, folks would not be offering to help him get back to racing.
I had a 13 this year. My fault, and it did a fair amount of damage. Folks were amazingly nice to me both in helping me understand what happened and how I could avoid it in the future, and also in getting the car back together. A friend GAVE me an extra set of headlights he had sitting around. Just GAVE them to me. By far, the majority of folks you meet at the track, and in particular the racers, are the most generous and helpful folks you'll ever meet. If Mark can get help rebuilding his car, it speaks well not only of the folks helping him, but also of Mark himself. We give him all sorts of crap here on the interweb, some probably deserved, some probably not, but in real life, I'll bet he's a good guy. If he were an asshat, folks would not be offering to help him get back to racing.
I've helped repair many competitors cars over the years on race weekends when something goes wrong. Last event I helped diagnose one car that had a low power issue (he podium'd after that), helped another figure out how to do a makeshift repair for a shifter cable problem, then went hunting down a clamp from others I knew to do the repair, just so he was able to finish out the weekend racing vs watching, and also brought parts up from Houston to repair another.
09-09-2009, 06:37 AM
#58
Still plays with cars.
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Mark - sorry to learn of your incident. A crash - apart from the physical injuries is always traumatic, especially for a low budget racer. That your engine and no doubt your new car was funded in part by your friends here and in the paddock says a lot about the Rennlist and racing communities. There is a bond there which is expressed by a willingness to help out in time of need.
Get well and start building!
Best,
Get well and start building!
Best,
09-09-2009, 09:20 AM
#59
Rennlist Member
Just a word about track people and helping each other out.
I had a 13 this year. My fault, and it did a fair amount of damage. Folks were amazingly nice to me both in helping me understand what happened and how I could avoid it in the future, and also in getting the car back together. A friend GAVE me an extra set of headlights he had sitting around. Just GAVE them to me. By far, the majority of folks you meet at the track, and in particular the racers, are the most generous and helpful folks you'll ever meet. If Mark can get help rebuilding his car, it speaks well not only of the folks helping him, but also of Mark himself. We give him all sorts of crap here on the interweb, some probably deserved, some probably not, but in real life, I'll bet he's a good guy. If he were an asshat, folks would not be offering to help him get back to racing.
I had a 13 this year. My fault, and it did a fair amount of damage. Folks were amazingly nice to me both in helping me understand what happened and how I could avoid it in the future, and also in getting the car back together. A friend GAVE me an extra set of headlights he had sitting around. Just GAVE them to me. By far, the majority of folks you meet at the track, and in particular the racers, are the most generous and helpful folks you'll ever meet. If Mark can get help rebuilding his car, it speaks well not only of the folks helping him, but also of Mark himself. We give him all sorts of crap here on the interweb, some probably deserved, some probably not, but in real life, I'll bet he's a good guy. If he were an asshat, folks would not be offering to help him get back to racing.
+2
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
09-09-2009, 11:02 AM
#60
Rennlist Member
Thanks Bob, Mike, and the rest of you race nuts!
The outpour of support on and off the list has been truely amazing. Ive already have had 2 calls from SCCA guys offering either their car, or a spare car of theirs to finish the season. I dont know if Ill take them up on that, but we will see after I get back from the doctor today about my back. The point is, its just amazing how this community of racers pull together when adversity hits to help each other. Its really unbelievable. It is very interesting why everyone is so helpful and supportive in this intensely competitive sport, compared to others.
mk
The outpour of support on and off the list has been truely amazing. Ive already have had 2 calls from SCCA guys offering either their car, or a spare car of theirs to finish the season. I dont know if Ill take them up on that, but we will see after I get back from the doctor today about my back. The point is, its just amazing how this community of racers pull together when adversity hits to help each other. Its really unbelievable. It is very interesting why everyone is so helpful and supportive in this intensely competitive sport, compared to others.
mk
Mark - sorry to learn of your incident. A crash - apart from the physical injuries is always traumatic, especially for a low budget racer. That your engine and no doubt your new car was funded in part by your friends here and in the paddock says a lot about the Rennlist and racing communities. There is a bond there which is expressed by a willingness to help out in time of need.
Get well and start building!
Best,
Get well and start building!
Best,