Geoffrey

You should not have a bedding problem with Pagid RS14s (black) pads. We just stick them in and go 100% without bedding them and have no issues as long as they are on used rotors. The Oranges (can't remember the number) are a terrible pad and have to be bedded properly and even then, they transfer pad material to the rotor when their operating temperature range is exceeded.

Routing a hose from the foglight cooling scoops is the easiest thing to do for cooling and only requires you to cut a hole in the block off plate behind oil cooler.

bobt993

Skip, I am running DTC60 compound on the stock C2 brakes. I can do a brake upgrade since it is free in class and may go to turbo brakes, but the Hawk pads have pretty solid. I also run SRF.

Flying Finn

+1

Here is my DIY for 993 which is very similar (if not exactly) with the 964.

FYI, If I was to do this duct install again, I'd remove the front bumper to make the installation easier.

race911

Ran Blacks on RSA #1 with probably Motul fluid (never stepped up to SRF). Fabricated some durable (sheetmetal) brake scoops to mount under the control arms. Never had an issue in 3 years of racing it. Just seriously bad pad wear at Laguna; seemed like I had to budget a set of fronts just for a single race there.

joey bagadonuts

Hey Skip,

I tracked a stock class C4 for a few years and here's what I did.

I used the PFC97's, Super Blue, bled before each weekend (that's all) and swapped pads when they were 2/3 worn (last tip is really important). Additionally, I removed the front dust shields (c-shaped tin covering the inboard side) and installed titanium shields or shims. The shims add a layer of insulation between pistons and pads and reduce heat transfer.
http://www.paragon-products.com/product_p/mc-6200.htm

One other change I've made (to my C2) is to gut the proportioning valve. This mod adjusts the bias so that the rears do a bit more of the work. I'm not sure what the experts would say about doing this to a stock setup but a lot of us with big brakes did it and realized no ill effects. And pad wear rates actually go from 2:1 (or 3:1) front and rear to 1:1. Garrett376 (who knows these cars well) gave us a write up on the 964 board.
https://rennlist.com/forums/964-foru...look-like.html

Last thing I was wondering about is braking conditions. I remember overcooking the C4 system frequently when I first started tracking. I used to get into the ABS--often--and would lose pedal firmness quickly. So avoiding ABS (unless you NEED them) is probably a good idea.

Additionally, I went to the track last week and noticed a soft pedal going into a specific corner. It's T8 at Road America which is at the bottom of a hill and follows a corner where you're bouncing pretty hard on the rumble strips. This combo seems to produce a hairy braking situation and many racers often tap the pedal before entering this hard braking zone. Apparently, the bounce can push back your pistons and give you a soft pedal at the worst possible moment.

I was just wondering if you might be experiencing something similar? Soft pedal going into a hard braking zone preceded by lots of wheel bounce? If so, you can either pump the pedal ahead of time or stay off the strips.

TrackDays247.com

Blacks are pretty easy to bed - pretty much replicates the first lap or two of a track day.
Nothing bites like a Black, very addictive -

swftiii

Thanks Everyone!

I'm going to start with 2 changes - 1 use Pagid Yellow RS29s and 2 reduce my braking where possible. Not sure the mind will let #2 happen too much, but that is obviously part of my problem.

Keep safe and I'll report back in October after the club race.

-Skip

OGRacing

The PFC 01 are available from OG Racing. We had PFC make them for us for the last 2-3 years. Currently have 40 sets in stock.

Bill

TrackDays247.com

Yellows - sure sounds like it all is a cooling issue, good solid advice given here for that.

forklift

Here is what I recommend, mostly what others have said:

1. Try pagids, Yellows probably, possibly Blacks, not Oranges. I would try to order from Mark F at CDOC, if he doesn’t have them, then rennstore
2. See if you can determine if your MC is still good or if it is going bad
3. Try to get brake cooling through the ducts and routed to the brakes (maybe even move this up on the list, but a bit of a project I think, although not too bad probably)
4. Buy big reds and move to prepared!....I still have the stock calipers myself but since I am going to prepared H, I will probably do this someday in the next 20 years.

Also look at driving....

DrJupeman

x .5

I run yellows front, blacks rear and am generally competitive...

onefastviking

Add cooling ducts, it will help. Run brake temp strips to see what temps you are reaching. Also, although it doesn't sound like it, be sure to check your wheel bearings, a loose (bad) bearing can cause some knockback.- Although then this would be happening all the time not just progressively.

mark kibort

You guys are right there. going from cooking Oranges with the new HP to being completely confident in the brakes now, under all conditions, sold me!

no problem bedding the brakes over the first couple of laps, run a couple of cool down laps and you are good to go!

MK

mark kibort

All good advice, but certainly you dont need, nor does anyone really, big reds.
you can just change rotor size and create the same effect. more leverage on the rotor using a larger diameter. are all 964s the same offset? (i.e.the 964T)If so, ive had great luck with going to the larger GTS , big red diameter rotor, but still using the 928S4 calipers. (which by the way, are exactly the same size , and use the same pad, as the SToptech ST40s and most Ferrari F50/F40 calipers too)

a good pad is important, but probably the cooling braking style is the biggest thing you can change. dont worry about braking less, but braking MORE for a shorter period.

There was a guy at laguna crying about his poor brakes overheating on his subaru during the POC race altenate run groups. I had to laugh, the guy was killing his brakes to fade, but running a time Ive done with NO brakes. dragging the brakes, or early braking at laguna will kill most any brake set up .

Flying Finn

Mark,

What do you use for offsetting the calibers when using larger diameter rotors? Had someone made spacers or?
(I've been toying with the idea myself).