BC

It will mostly be a street car with occasional track use.

BC

Okay. No jettisoning gas tanks then.

Check.


The filler will be in the stock location, but go through the rail into the top of the tank, just like any other car. If you have seen John's pictures, he has a tube going through in the same manner.



It is about at the same height as the stock tank. Possibly a bit higher off the ground for the same car height. Its more shallow than the stock tank.


Its a 22 gallon I think. The stock size is 22 gallons. This is primarily a street car. Also, I will be using approx 30-40% more fuel at times as this is an E85 car. I will have to coat the aluminum for this use. Powdercoating, Anodizing, or similar.


I can't even take credit for the welding on the surge tank - A very good fabricator did that for me. I just made the mock up. The main tank was free.

RedlineMan

Ahhh....

Well ya got what ya paid for, eh?. Sorry, but I'm not feeling it here. I think you would have been far better served to just get a JAZ cell (or similar) of whatever size and been done with it. I don't think my system is perfect, but it has some fundamental differences from yours that make it viable... no hard plumbing of pumps being a big one.

I don't think your version of "the wheel" has improved the breed.

kurt M

As yopu have found out there are no simple questions and answers here. If you are looking for safety go with the pro built tank using pro methods.

E85 and Al tanks don't get along well. JAZ makes inexpensive plastic tank in a metal box type fuel cells. $200 or so and might be worth it for peace of mind alone. Looks like you have a off road rock crawler type tank or one built by someone that builds for off road.

BC

I will have to look closer at your pics. I have the ethanol as an issue, so I cannot use the same pushlock hose you used (I have 2 dozen feet of it, though, for other things) and I must use teflon lined hose if it is flexible. This is why I have the thin-wall SS tubing.

The main tank, I believe, IS a Jaz or similar tank with some changes done so it can use the stock sending unit.

Thanks

BC

Can't use plastic. Unless the plastic is cross-linked polythylene.

RedlineMan

The JAZ cells are.

RedlineMan

I implore you to step back and really look at what you are doing. Let's not even talk about how ugly ethanol fires are. This is all old and well settled technology, the addition of ethanol notwithstanding. This technology has been pretty much perfected, and there is available what there is for a reason. I submit that you need to see this. This is the forest and I think you are only aware of the trees.

You can only do yourself good if you see a flaw in the status quo, and right it effectively. If there is no flaw, then you are simply twiddling, quite possibly to your detriment. Sometimes you CAN lead, but other times - if it's called for, if you can't improve what is known - you have to be smart enough to punt... and follow.

There are many times I think about reconfiguring my stock fuel system.

kurt M

Clop Clop Clop. Look... water.

BC

JAZ cells are cross linked and ethanol compatible? Thats good to know. Maybe I could put one IN this aluminum tank. Or another aluminum tank.

Or I could buy a compatible bladder for THIS tank I already have I guess.

Professor Helmüt Tester

Every shred of their marketing materials shouts it.

We're in a bit of a time-warp here. Almost exactly two years ago, you were asking the same questions, and getting the same answers:

https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...el-cell-4.html

(see posts 40-50ish, if you want a little deja vue)

You were told, at that time, that your plans were unsafe. You're now being told again.

Next time, it's on you, dude.

(Edit)

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SU...S/?image=large

You were told then that those Summit tanks were junk. We're now there again.

BC

I am getting the idea. Please keep posting your thoughts. A couple considerations:

I cannot have an intank pump. As I have speced the surge tank, I do not need one, but MORE importantly, ethanol is conductive, so you can't very well have an electric pump IN the fuel. I will do more research, but I did not see a solution to this - the wire sheaths, connections, etc would all need to be very well protected with compatible materials.

I was never going to "race" the car. Just occassional DEs, while I build a purpose built car for the track with a smaller fuel cell. The reason I asked about "Rules" is because I did not want to preclude my acceptance into participation at stuff like Speed Ventures, SCCA road course stuff, PCA autocrosses, etc.

The ORIGINAL reason I even ripped out all the stuff was because the thing had a plastic tank in it in the first place. It had a pump hanging off the bottom of the tank at the rear of the car with a huge rubber line connection. It had a metal cover for accidents I am sure, but with ethanol usage, all that had to go - the plastic tank, the inline pump, the rubber fuel lines, etc.

This was what I came up with for a street/track car that will mostly just see SoCal traffic.

Does anyone see ANY compromise with using this large aluminum tank in the way that it sits if I protect the lines on the bottom with plating? The top will be sealed from the cabin, but whatever tank I use will sit exactly where this tank sits, as there really is nowhere else to put it.

BC

Sometimes you just have to work with what you have. A 1000 dollar Fuel Cell from the big names and a ethanol compatible bladder is simply not in the cards for this car.

You'll notice I DID listen in that thread and have incorporated a surge can, so the fuel will not be interrupted.

The Jaz plastic tanks were poo-pooed on here many times as an amateur solution.

This is John's Solution:

BC

At the time, John Said this:

The only thing I did not do was get a CLPT cell. I can still do that. I could get one that basically fits into the aluminum "case" and pumps out the top (Do pumps Suck from above the area of fuel okay?) and fill through the top, but strap the aluminum can the way I suggested originally.

That way there are two cases before breakage. The lowest fuel point is still the surge tank into the pressure pump - but that is the way John has his as well.

Mike Simard, a good friend of mine, suggested on thing I have not been able to avoid as of yet - cutting a hole in the rear rail for the filler tube to NOT be in the cabin. I do not have the sheet metal skills of John H.

If I change paths now, I would have the jazz cross-linked IN the aluminum tank, sealed but pumping from the TOP.

Further, I could even put some water AROUND the plastic tank IN the aluminum can. Then, if one breaks while the other breaks, the water comes out with the ethanol fuel, and it may stop a fire from happening. Water is the way they put out ethanol fires - just lots of water.

kurt M

that will work OK if you have a 1 gal fuel tank with 15 gal of water around it. They use water as it mixes right in and drops the % below the combustion point. A little water does no good.

It is all in the details. Stock was plastic with a metal cover. Yours is metal with no cover, is not compatable with the planned fuel but it was free. Your fuel pump is hard piped from a metal tank which has bad form all over it. You can knock yourself out making this free tank work with or get the right tank. A made to measure bladder for that tank will cost you at least 5 times what an off the shelf JAZ tank would. Was the stock tank and pump OK with E85?