2009 Hungarian Grand Prix race preview, discussion, predictions
07-26-2009, 06:51 PM
#121
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Obviously the wheel itself cannot be tethered to the car or they couldn't change them. I think the hub is tethered and the wheel "should" be securely fastened to the hub/rotor because they usually detach together.
I guess that is the flaw in the concept, if the nut is broken and the wheel comes loose, the tether can't help anyways.
07-26-2009, 08:46 PM
#122
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Obviously the wheel itself cannot be tethered to the car or they couldn't change them. I think the hub is tethered and the wheel "should" be securely fastened to the hub/rotor because they usually detach together.
I guess that is the flaw in the concept, if the nut is broken and the wheel comes loose, the tether can't help anyways.
I guess that is the flaw in the concept, if the nut is broken and the wheel comes loose, the tether can't help anyways.
07-26-2009, 09:42 PM
#123
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Looking at the picture in post # 92, I am still trying to determine if there was plastic deformation of the helmet/visor, since it does in fact look like there was sufficient kinetic energy to do so (haven't tried to run any numbers)
The visor (some sort of polycarbonate, not familiar at all with Schuberth helmets) appears to be completely in tact, yet he clearly has blunt force trauma to his left side of face/orbital, hence the likely source of the bleeding inside his skull. It doesn't appear as though that would have come from the impact to the helmet.
Is it possible that the visor did in fact bend, allowing contact to his face/skull and did not break (no direct penetration)?
AFAIK, helmets are governed by FIA/SFI/Snell et. al. testing, but up until this point, I don't think I've ever given a second thought to the visor testing/certification.
I'm sure the FIA and Schuberth will be closely examining the helmet and visor, along with the FIA's doctors' report to determine if changes need to be made.
The visor (some sort of polycarbonate, not familiar at all with Schuberth helmets) appears to be completely in tact, yet he clearly has blunt force trauma to his left side of face/orbital, hence the likely source of the bleeding inside his skull. It doesn't appear as though that would have come from the impact to the helmet.
Is it possible that the visor did in fact bend, allowing contact to his face/skull and did not break (no direct penetration)?
AFAIK, helmets are governed by FIA/SFI/Snell et. al. testing, but up until this point, I don't think I've ever given a second thought to the visor testing/certification.
I'm sure the FIA and Schuberth will be closely examining the helmet and visor, along with the FIA's doctors' report to determine if changes need to be made.
They will actually wake him up tomorrow (Monday) morning but only briefly and then put him back to coma.
If everything goes well, he might be back two months from now.
Kimi & Domenicali visited Massa today after the race before their trip home. Felipe was of course in coma but they saw him and his family and wished him well.
LH probably had something in reserve but since Kimi's Ferrari had lost some power (due to a broken exhaust), he didn't have real chance.
Superb drive (from both of them) though!
07-26-2009, 09:44 PM
#124
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Normally I would agree, but in light of Massa nearly being killed by a piece from someone's car, I wont complain when someone is excluded for safety reasons. Fernando or someone else could have been seriously injured or worse if that wheel had held on until the wrong moment.
I am in full agreement with the Stewards for once. If something bad had happened, I don't think anyone would object to their being exlcluded for negligence, so I'm going to err on the side of caution.
With less testing, safety has to take a higher priority than ever before. I wish they could come up with a way the driver didn't have to be punished as well though. The Renualts were really starting to come up too. Maybe a hefty fine, no points awarded for the next two races and a warning that they'd be excluded from the rest of the season if it happened again. I think that would learn em'.
I am in full agreement with the Stewards for once. If something bad had happened, I don't think anyone would object to their being exlcluded for negligence, so I'm going to err on the side of caution.
With less testing, safety has to take a higher priority than ever before. I wish they could come up with a way the driver didn't have to be punished as well though. The Renualts were really starting to come up too. Maybe a hefty fine, no points awarded for the next two races and a warning that they'd be excluded from the rest of the season if it happened again. I think that would learn em'.
I'm not a great fan of Renault or Alonso but do recognise his talent and it would be a great miss for F1 racing if he wasn't at Spa.
Should he have pulled off the track when he realised what was happening before the wheel came off..........yes!
07-26-2009, 09:51 PM
#125
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What's with Ferrari's and their exhausts breaking.
Hope Massa's brain heals well.
With his mental abilities intact.
07-26-2009, 10:15 PM
#126
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F1 car exhaust systems are very complex and fragile. Their reliability has greatly improved over the years considering how many cars used to DNF because of exhaust failure.
The complexity comes from the getting the correct back pressure waves; getting it wrong affects engine HP enormously as does when it breaks.
IIRC Steve Machett did a good explanation on one of the Speed shows.
The complexity comes from the getting the correct back pressure waves; getting it wrong affects engine HP enormously as does when it breaks.
IIRC Steve Machett did a good explanation on one of the Speed shows.
07-27-2009, 10:27 AM
#128
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But in real life, no.
Renault's penalty was so sever because they did 4 things wrong with the whole tire incident and because of Surtees' recent death but I doubt they will have to stay out of Valencia.
Ticket sales have been down anyway (also, did you see the empty grandstands in Hungary?!) and keeping Alonso out would be a killer for the race finances.
07-27-2009, 10:41 AM
#129
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07-27-2009, 11:15 AM
#130
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2nd: They didn't do anything even though they knew the tire wasn't properly mounted.
3rd: They didn't advice Alonso to take it easy when Alonso radioed to the team suspecting tire damage (he didn't know the team had screwed up).
4th: Tire got loose and was bouncing dangerously on & off the track.
07-27-2009, 11:19 AM
#131
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1st: They sent the car out even though the tire wasn't properly mounted.
2nd: They didn't do anything even though they knew the tire wasn't properly mounted.
3rd: They didn't advice Alonso to take it easy when Alonso radioed to the team suspecting tire damage (he didn't know the team had screwed up).
4th: Tire got loose and was bouncing dangerously on & off the track.
2nd: They didn't do anything even though they knew the tire wasn't properly mounted.
3rd: They didn't advice Alonso to take it easy when Alonso radioed to the team suspecting tire damage (he didn't know the team had screwed up).
4th: Tire got loose and was bouncing dangerously on & off the track.
So it has definately been established that the pit crew was aware the tire was not mounted properly?
07-27-2009, 11:24 AM
#132
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I think you could actually see that during the pit stop, the tire guys was kinda hesitating and immediately the aero "flap" started to turn which tells everything is not right.
But for them to not tell Alonso about it is pretty ****ed up.
07-27-2009, 11:41 AM
#133
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On one of the vid replays of the pitstop, you can see the tire/flap guy on the right front reaching in and try to turn the wheel nut by hand.
Plus that carbonfiber wheel flap flying off on track can't do the tires much good.
Sad there was no pit to driver communication.
Glad the wheel didn't come off and clout anyone, including the driver.
Plus that carbonfiber wheel flap flying off on track can't do the tires much good.
Sad there was no pit to driver communication.
Glad the wheel didn't come off and clout anyone, including the driver.
07-27-2009, 01:42 PM
#134
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In light of a comment made by the SpeedTV crew during the coverage of the impact force being approximately 1600lbs and looking at the picture in post # 92, the visor likely did not deform and impact Felipe's face.
Perhaps the impact/damage/trauma to his face/skull was simply due to the complete deformation of the helmet padding, thus allowing the entire helmet structure/visor to impact his face/skull/orbital, leading to the trauma.
At 1600# and given the approximate (contact) area, the foam should essentially disappear.
In such a scenario, carbon fibre and/or bulletproof anything is not going to make a difference.
Perhaps the impact/damage/trauma to his face/skull was simply due to the complete deformation of the helmet padding, thus allowing the entire helmet structure/visor to impact his face/skull/orbital, leading to the trauma.
At 1600# and given the approximate (contact) area, the foam should essentially disappear.
In such a scenario, carbon fibre and/or bulletproof anything is not going to make a difference.
