Phokaioglaukos

There are a host of stories (in English) here: http://www.spiegel.de/international/...k-7579,00.html

wanna911

LOL, the 911 and VW Beetle being sold side by side. Clarkson will LOVE this one!

On a side note, Porsches being sold at VW dealers makes me throw up a little in my mouth. No real reason, just does. This has a drab feel of me losing interest in Porsche from here forward if I see anything VW starting to influence them. With the CEO out it sounds like that's just what's going to happen too. VW's are crap boxes too.

Bull

Ah youth! You do realize that what you say is about to cause you to "throw up a little in my mouth" is exactly what existed for many years...and those years were during the best years of Porsche racing, right? My first ever sponsor was Freeway VW - Porsche in Seattle when I raced in the late '60s and early '70s. They then built a separate building adjacent to the VW store (they were out growing the facility) and became University Porsche - Audi when they brought Audi in.

Is VW an assault on your image?

wanna911

How could it have to do with image? They own Audi, and Lambo, Bugatti, etc. I could care less. I just don't want the dedication to racing affected, nor the direction of the company and in these days that is a likely occurrence when someone else's bean counters take over. I don't want to see R8's replacing RSR's, or Vw influencing the body styling, or VW cutting corners to make more money from their small but strong subsidiary company. Porsche is a purist company if there can be called such a thing these days, and though I haven't agreed with everything they've done, I'm happy overall with their approach.

The old addage comes to mind "If it ain't broke"...................

The Brewmeister

Statements like this make me throw up in my mouth alot. You obviously know
very little about the history of Porsche. VW and Porsche have shared
engineering and design ideas since the days when both companies were
in their infancy. 356 No. 1 had a VW drivetrain, the 914, 924, and the Cayenne/
Toureg were joint projects. BTW, my wife and I both love our crap boxes!

wanna911

I could care less about history, Porsche has almost gone bankrupt once before since all those early models, and now almost again trying to bite off more than they can chew.

VW has been below the industry average in quality for years and years:

Every year, J. D. Power and Associates publishes the Initial Quality Study (IQS), ranking automakers from best to worst. As far back as 2004, Volkswagen has usually hovered around automakers such as Land Rover. Not in bad company until you realize that Land Rover is usually dead last in the survey with Volkswagen just 2-3 spaces higher than Land Rover. Historically, the IQS has been a source of shame for Volkswagen as, year after year, they always remain near the bottom. In the last 4 years, Volkswagen has gone as far down as third from last (above Suzuki and Land Rover in 2006) with 171 problems per 100 vehicles. In 2007, Volkswagen improved just a tiny bit going up fifth from last with just 160 problems per 100 vehicles.


The Passat is one of the most stolen vehicles on the planet. Sorry, I do not want that company in charge of building me a Porsche, nor would I want GM, Ford, Toyota, or any of the other giants doing it either. PERIOD! My standards for Porsche are too high.

Don't take it personal, it's just my opinion, I'm ok with people that think Porsche's are hideous because that's their opinion. I'm secure with my decision because that's what I like. And for me that's all that matters.

The Brewmeister

If you could care less about history then why would you give a flying rat's a$$ about the purity of
of Porsche's racing program? Big time prototype racing victories are probably HISTORY
for now (per Michael Cotton's Porsche Panorama column) so all we have now is GT. Audi is to carry
the prototype banner.

As for the quality issues with VW, I go with my own experiences over the BS surveys. To elaborate
anymore on this issue would be

wanna911

I meant the history in relation to joint projects with VW. A joint project and outright ownership are two completely different things in case you didn't notice. You may have gotten a decent VW, but there are tons of people who haven't, more than usual for one of the highest volume producers in the world should have.

If VW starts to CONTROL the direction of Porsche the only way to go is DOWN. Porsche in recent years have been more successful fiscally than ever before, lead by the racing program. It's time to move forward, not backwards. Joint projects are fine, but closing dealers and selling Porsches at VW dealers is not a good thing. If you think that bodes well for the future of Porsche, you really need some help.

333pg333

This all makes sense to me, as in I agree with you. It will be very interesting to see how 'our' company develops in the next few years. Let's hope that Winerkorn didn't secretly always hate Porsche and dump them.....
Perhaps the front engine brigade will rise to the fore again. lol

NaroEscape

wanna911
FWIW, I completely agree with you on all your points. I can only hope for one thing: Piech is a Porsche decendent, so maybe, just maybe, he will always have a place in his heart of the sanctity of the brand. Piech is also an engineer, whereas WW was not.

But yes, selling Porsche's in VW stores would kill the brand, I agree. Someone buying a $100K + car has a level of expectation of service, someone buying a $20k VW does not. Porsche is a lifestyle, VW no matter how hard they try, is a volume daily driver. Period. I like some VW's, and a handful of Audi's, but for very different reasons than why I love Porsches.

Now, looking at it on a hopefully positive note - VW bought Lambo and the new models are LOADS better than the old sh*t they used to sell. And what about the Veyron? (though if you look close enough, it looks like a VW...)

And...lets talk about racing. Porsche has basically pulled out of racing at the moment. ALMS? what do we have, just Flying Lizards? Grand Am? TRG, Farnbacker Loles, and a few engines in DP cars. WW was only concerned with bottom line numbers - hopefully family member Piech will remember the racing heritage and bring it back to the forefront....

Or.....not.... only time will tell.

Bull

Bob, since Piech WAS the major leader in a huge part of Porsche's racing heritage (917, and many others), I would like to think that he will want to get it back on track. Time will tell.

DrJupeman

This is my hope.

Look at Audi's successes over the past 10 years. That was Piech at the helm. The question is whether he'll want to continue those successes for Audi or switch the effort ($) over to Porsche. I suspect he'll be smart and put them behind Porsche.

Todsimpson

But that already happened, right? While the 917 was dominating the track, 911's shared the showroom floor with Dasher wagons.

There will be plenty of opportunities for VW to ruin Porsche, but they've been successful with upscale brands like Audi, Bentley, Lambo, Bugatti...I think they can pull it off.

wanna911

But where though? Can you see them letting Porsche and Audi go head to head in Lemans and ALMS? I doubt it. There really isn't any other major stage to race in (Indy? F1?) that Porsche doesn't have a presence in.

I can't see Porsche conceding to racing P2 while the rules make the Audi's that much faster in P1. If they did go head to head in P1 that would be cool though.

DrJupeman

See my post #42 a few above: I suspect Piech might push Porsche racing in place of Audi. Audi is running a thin schedule this year as it is.