hand positions with and without an airbag? need advise
03-06-2009, 10:56 AM
#31
Rennlist Member
03-06-2009, 11:09 AM
#32
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I still love that video "just lift off the gas to bring the tail around" F$%K, F$%K 
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Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
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Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
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CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
03-06-2009, 11:40 AM
#33
Drifting
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Here is your shufflesteerer with his helpful instructional video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzwUbsaEhAQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzwUbsaEhAQ
That guy didn't crash because he shuffle steers...that guy crashed because he didn't react fast enough. His initial correction, which WASN'T a shuffle, was WAY WAY too slow. By the time he got around to moving his hands on the wheel, his fate was already sealed. He managed to roll a car while doing 6-7/10ths. That points to his inexperience and inability, but it had nothing to do with the shuffle on the wheel which occurred well after the car was on it's way into the grass sideways.
03-06-2009, 12:23 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
Somehow missed this post earlier.
That guy didn't crash because he shuffle steers...that guy crashed because he didn't react fast enough. His initial correction, which WASN'T a shuffle, was WAY WAY too slow. By the time he got around to moving his hands on the wheel, his fate was already sealed. He managed to roll a car while doing 6-7/10ths. That points to his inexperience and inability, but it had nothing to do with the shuffle on the wheel which occurred well after the car was on it's way into the grass sideways.
That guy didn't crash because he shuffle steers...that guy crashed because he didn't react fast enough. His initial correction, which WASN'T a shuffle, was WAY WAY too slow. By the time he got around to moving his hands on the wheel, his fate was already sealed. He managed to roll a car while doing 6-7/10ths. That points to his inexperience and inability, but it had nothing to do with the shuffle on the wheel which occurred well after the car was on it's way into the grass sideways.
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03-06-2009, 12:35 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
And it was Denise McCluggage who wrote the article. Started racing about the time Hill, Gurney, Shelby, etc. did, right? Bell and Haywood were still on training wheels.
03-06-2009, 12:49 PM
#37
03-06-2009, 01:17 PM
#38
Rennlist Member
http://dictionary.reference.com/brow...umor?qsrc=2888
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03-06-2009, 01:48 PM
#39
Ahem...you may want to save your money & purchase this:
http://dictionary.reference.com/brow...umor?qsrc=2888
http://dictionary.reference.com/brow...umor?qsrc=2888
I got your point. I'm sure it's all meant in a good way and with a good sense of humor. But it doesn't always shine through. I hope you get mine.
/Magnus
03-06-2009, 01:58 PM
#40
Rennlist Member
AMEN! And there are a lot of old , great athletes of all disciplines that can do things that shouldnt be taught from the get-go. If you look at sports, such as ski racing, technique that worked many years ago for then greats, Jean Claude Kiely, etc, would be at the back of the pack for todays up and comers with the new ski racing techniques. (things like lifting up the inside ski for race turns vs just rolling the nees like Tomba started a few years ago which is now the standard!) IM sure many things simlar to that can be said about driving todays race cars.
I see no reason for shuffle steering, unless you have to really work the wheel more than usual.
Mk
I see no reason for shuffle steering, unless you have to really work the wheel more than usual.
Mk
that is funny! When I took the Porsche school part of the class room what about proper hand position on the wheel. None of the instructors including Hurley advocated shuffle steering. They all preached 9 and 3 with your thumbs latch around the end of the center part of the wheel and to pull down on the wheel to turn and never push up on the wheel.
I say just drive the dang car.
I say just drive the dang car.
Last edited by mark kibort; 03-06-2009 at 02:17 PM. Reason: spelling
03-06-2009, 02:00 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
I totally agree with you . I just thought the video was funny, and he was a shuffle steer-er. Im sure if we watched all his video, his shuffle-steering would cause some issues. But yes you are right, he was very slow to react, but GREAT at the incar commentating!
MK
MK
Somehow missed this post earlier.
That guy didn't crash because he shuffle steers...that guy crashed because he didn't react fast enough. His initial correction, which WASN'T a shuffle, was WAY WAY too slow. By the time he got around to moving his hands on the wheel, his fate was already sealed. He managed to roll a car while doing 6-7/10ths. That points to his inexperience and inability, but it had nothing to do with the shuffle on the wheel which occurred well after the car was on it's way into the grass sideways.
That guy didn't crash because he shuffle steers...that guy crashed because he didn't react fast enough. His initial correction, which WASN'T a shuffle, was WAY WAY too slow. By the time he got around to moving his hands on the wheel, his fate was already sealed. He managed to roll a car while doing 6-7/10ths. That points to his inexperience and inability, but it had nothing to do with the shuffle on the wheel which occurred well after the car was on it's way into the grass sideways.
03-06-2009, 02:08 PM
#42
Rennlist Member
03-06-2009, 04:49 PM
#43
Rennlist Member
AMEN! And there are a lot of old , great athletes of all disciplines that can do things that shouldnt be taught from the get-go. If you look at sports, such as ski racing, technique that worked many years ago for then greats, Jean Claude Kiely, etc, would be at the back of the pack for todays up and comers with the new ski racing techniques. (things like lifting up the inside ski for race turns vs just rolling the nees like Tomba started a few years ago which is now the standard!) IM sure many things simlar to that can be said about driving todays race cars.
I see no reason for shuffle steering, unless you have to really work the wheel more than usual.
Mk
I see no reason for shuffle steering, unless you have to really work the wheel more than usual.
Mk
Are you suggesting that Hurley is working the wheel more than he needs to? Maybe you have some video of yourself in the 928 that you can send to him with some tips?
There are a lot of reasons to teach a beginner 9 and 3. But lets not ignore the fact that other techniques work as talent, equipment, speed, etc. changes.
03-06-2009, 06:34 PM
#44
Rennlist Member
It could work for Hurley, but Ive seen him drive and he in no way does shuffle steering. I never said he move the wheel more than it needed to be moved. I said it could inhibit correction for a car in a unforseen attitude if the hands were roaming over the wheel. It could work for a lot of folks. Do you really want me to expose some spins, crashes where I think shuffle steering was the result of shuffle steering? I just posted some reasons why it might not be such a great idea. If you have reasons why it might be better, I sure would like to hear them. (and not the VR reasons like, street driving, autocrossing, ice driving, anti-kidnapping technique, SUV, etc) Im talkng about road racing, ONLY. As equipment gets better along with the competition, there is less and less room for error in driving style. I think 10 years ago, a lot of the "top guys were pretty sloppy" compared to todays standards. the cars are no different, but the times have dropped. Guys are just getting better. Like any sport, coaching, education, practice is key. I think there is just better information around today.
I've heard from those that have been coached by Hurly that he didnt advocate "shufflesteering" in their sessions with him.
mk
I've heard from those that have been coached by Hurly that he didnt advocate "shufflesteering" in their sessions with him.
mk
The shuffle steering advocate in the article was Hurley Haywood, hardly an old athlete who is no longer relevant. He was just on the podium at Daytona 5 or 6 weeks ago! In the article he was coaching someone in a modern sports car.
Are you suggesting that Hurley is working the wheel more than he needs to? Maybe you have some video of yourself in the 928 that you can send to him with some tips?
There are a lot of reasons to teach a beginner 9 and 3. But lets not ignore the fact that other techniques work as talent, equipment, speed, etc. changes.
Are you suggesting that Hurley is working the wheel more than he needs to? Maybe you have some video of yourself in the 928 that you can send to him with some tips?
There are a lot of reasons to teach a beginner 9 and 3. But lets not ignore the fact that other techniques work as talent, equipment, speed, etc. changes.
03-09-2009, 12:39 AM
#45
Rennlist Member
Last I looked, I was at least as much of a "racer" as you are. Please grow up and realize that the universe does not revolve around you, my friend.
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