LSD - How important?
03-02-2009, 11:02 PM
#31
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What type of LSD is it? Is it stock or aftermarket? If aftermarket, who made it? The manufacturer is VERY important. I've got over 2 years (with a LOT of hours) on my current one from Guard and it's still strong.
03-02-2009, 11:53 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
I've two RSA's both setup for the track, suspension setups are almost identical, within a few hundred pounds of each other, running the same wheels/tires. Ran the open rear for years, then got the new car setup, the LSD is huge, I never realized how much I was feathering the throttle to minimize the inside wheelspin, and little tricks to keep from unloading the rear like riding the outside curb on trackout, and delaying the power out of the corner...you can put the car where you want it on the track and use the power you need when you need it...worth it in my mind...now I really miss it on the spec car...
03-03-2009, 08:03 AM
#33
Burning Brakes
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I'm more curious about a stock LSD in an RSA... and if it should command much of a premium.
i.e. versus a non-LSD RSA and then pay for an aftermarket one with installation. Any idea of total cost?
i.e. versus a non-LSD RSA and then pay for an aftermarket one with installation. Any idea of total cost?
03-03-2009, 08:36 AM
#34
Nordschleife Master
A stock LSD in the G50/05 trans is a 2 plate 40/40 locking differential. The plates are organic and they wear out quickly under hard usage. By contrast, the 964 Cup G50/10 uses the same housing but a 4 plate version with stronger plates although this diff still wears out after a season on slicks. The 2 plate street version simply does not last AND has preload that is street oriented rather than track oriented which allows more slippage that is desirable. You WANT a racing LSD, not a street LSD.
03-03-2009, 09:44 AM
#35
Three Wheelin'
If you're still interested in an LSD, I'm probably selling my Porsche G50 LSD diff for $400...it will probably need to have new plates.
Shoot me an E-mail if you're interested.
Shoot me an E-mail if you're interested.
03-03-2009, 12:31 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
If you're ultimate goal is racing or heavy track use, you need aftermarket, If someone else is spinning wrenches then I'd figure $2k all in, including the, "while we're in there" stuff...So I'd say it if you get a car with a factory LSD it might get you by for a while. But you're going to be looking at the upgrade so the premium? nominal at best.
03-03-2009, 02:59 PM
#38
Race Director
A somewhat contrary view -
Running an open diff can make you a better drover. Why ? Because you'll actually have to pay attention to throttle application while cornering, and learn to not spin up the inside tire. Paying attention to suspension-loading, and gettting the full range of vehicle feedback, is important. If you're not racing, for money...trophies...post-race nookie...whatever...then LSD is definitely NOT a "must". Besides, if it's not there, it can't break (says the guy who broke a "Detroit locker" in 2007...yes...you can actually break one).
Learn to drive without it. Like any crutch, you'll see an advantage if you then transition to one, with the skills you've learned "without".
Running an open diff can make you a better drover. Why ? Because you'll actually have to pay attention to throttle application while cornering, and learn to not spin up the inside tire. Paying attention to suspension-loading, and gettting the full range of vehicle feedback, is important. If you're not racing, for money...trophies...post-race nookie...whatever...then LSD is definitely NOT a "must". Besides, if it's not there, it can't break (says the guy who broke a "Detroit locker" in 2007...yes...you can actually break one).
Learn to drive without it. Like any crutch, you'll see an advantage if you then transition to one, with the skills you've learned "without".
That is what I have been telling myself for 8 years. The sad thing is that I am starting to think it is time to get one. The problem is that t is $1500 would rather keep in my pocket right now.
I really think that some people go with and LSD way too early. While it is great thing you can achieve alot with an open diff. One thing that you must do with an open diff is to adjust the driving style and car set-up minimize it impact. If you don't try to adjust for it you will suffer. If you learn to tune the chassis and drive around the issue you can still be very fast. Faster than guys with LSD's who have not learned to drive as well. When you are learning $1500-$5000 of DE's and track time are worth more in terms of lap time than $1500-$2500 of LSD in the car.
03-03-2009, 03:05 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
Herr Professor,
That is what I have been telling myself for 8 years. The sad thing is that I am starting to think it is time to get one. The problem is that t is $1500 would rather keep in my pocket right now.
BTW... when you are learning $1500-$5000 of DE's and track time are worth more in terms of lap time than $1500-$2500 of LSD in the car.
That is what I have been telling myself for 8 years. The sad thing is that I am starting to think it is time to get one. The problem is that t is $1500 would rather keep in my pocket right now.
BTW... when you are learning $1500-$5000 of DE's and track time are worth more in terms of lap time than $1500-$2500 of LSD in the car.
03-03-2009, 03:15 PM
#40
Agent Orange
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The LSD has made a huge difference for me. My RSA came with an open diff and I had one installed last summer. The car is much better under acceleration and incredibly stable under braking. I love it!
03-03-2009, 03:32 PM
#41
Race Director
At this point I would still rather spend that at Nationals than to buy an LSD and not go.
03-03-2009, 10:44 PM
#42
Burning Brakes
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03-04-2009, 02:14 PM
#43
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I suppose it also depends on which car you go with....964 is much more powerful than a 944 N/A...I spoke with alot of guys racing the spec 944's in norcal, and a few of them did not have LSD...But it seemed their driving style was focused around not having one. They mentioned how they were trying to keep the car "flat" through the turns etc.
03-04-2009, 03:54 PM
#44
Rennlist Member
I suppose it also depends on which car you go with....964 is much more powerful than a 944 N/A...I spoke with alot of guys racing the spec 944's in norcal, and a few of them did not have LSD...But it seemed their driving style was focused around not having one. They mentioned how they were trying to keep the car "flat" through the turns etc.
03-05-2009, 10:11 AM
#45
Race Director
Jim,
Over the years of racing I have found the biggest draw back to an open diff being trail braking for turn 2 for example. I can also get wheel spin out of 9 and turn 6-7. However that can be managed. It is instability in Turn 2 that really hurts bad.
BTW... I am pumped up about this weekend. We should have an excellent field! Are you coming by Saturday Morning? I plan to drop off the car later today, but will be driving Sat & Sunday only.
Over the years of racing I have found the biggest draw back to an open diff being trail braking for turn 2 for example. I can also get wheel spin out of 9 and turn 6-7. However that can be managed. It is instability in Turn 2 that really hurts bad.
BTW... I am pumped up about this weekend. We should have an excellent field! Are you coming by Saturday Morning? I plan to drop off the car later today, but will be driving Sat & Sunday only.