How do you know an instructor should not be?
02-23-2009, 05:40 PM
#31
One of my pet peeves ( and I drive with quite a few different Regions) is the apparent total lack of feedback for instructors. AFAIK there is no formal (or even informal) peer group feedback from other instructors and there seems to be almost no feedback from students. I've driven with regions that ask students to fill out a written review of their Instructors but I've never seen one that provides the feedback to the Instructor.
I read threads occasionally here on Rennlist that complain about the quality of PCA instruction/Instructors, and generally find them disappointing ... primarily because they seem to serve no purpose ... and I think it's not particularly useful/good for morale within the Instructor corps.
Last edited by dave morris; 02-23-2009 at 07:28 PM.
02-23-2009, 05:40 PM
#32
I felt the same, or similar, until I saw how the "program" was conducted in some other Regions.
Of course, if the "Program" is not presented and followed up on in a proper manner, then it is just a group of people going through the minimal steps in order to keep the National folks happy. I wouldn't base an evaluation of the potential usefulness of the National Certification Program on one Region's implementation of it.
Of course, if the "Program" is not presented and followed up on in a proper manner, then it is just a group of people going through the minimal steps in order to keep the National folks happy. I wouldn't base an evaluation of the potential usefulness of the National Certification Program on one Region's implementation of it.
02-23-2009, 05:44 PM
#33
Race Director
I agree that for novice students the instructor need not be some magical driver. If they can't heel and toe fine, but the do clearly need to be able to drive smooth and well within in their limits on the track.
A good instructor (sitting the pass seat) will be able to comunicate the key points of driving in a way the student can understand. They should be able to recognize and reienforce good behaviors and nip bad behaviors before they become bad habits.
Now a good instructor in the car (and in the paddock) must be curtious, respectfull and aware of his surroundings. They must be capable of being calm and undercontrol at all times. An instructor going "off the handle" is not a good thing. Pure speed and expert technique is not required, but you should be able to follow an instructor on the track and so no major errors even if they may seem to going 6/10ths all the time.
A good instructor (sitting the pass seat) will be able to comunicate the key points of driving in a way the student can understand. They should be able to recognize and reienforce good behaviors and nip bad behaviors before they become bad habits.
Now a good instructor in the car (and in the paddock) must be curtious, respectfull and aware of his surroundings. They must be capable of being calm and undercontrol at all times. An instructor going "off the handle" is not a good thing. Pure speed and expert technique is not required, but you should be able to follow an instructor on the track and so no major errors even if they may seem to going 6/10ths all the time.
02-23-2009, 05:45 PM
#34
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I thought this was a topic about how you know if someone is a good instructor? First, I'd like to say the PCA Instructor's Course was developed from a lot of folks with a lot of experience that pulled all the good stuff together from every club out there and laid it out for PCA. It is a great program. For the experienced instructor it reviews and enlightens them on how they are teaching. For the novice instructor, it is a guideline of how to take what they have seen from every instructor they ever had and mold them to become good instructors.
As an event organizer, you quickly pick up who is good (not necessarily as an instructor but as a person) by how many times they are requested. We have several that get three to four requests per DE.
What makes a poor instructor - the type you never want to invite back? One that you get a student complaint from that is legit. A person who has no input for the student other than "turn left, turn right." Who doesn't stay with the student after a session just to go over what was done. One that doesn't take the time to meet the student before their first session to find out what goals the student has.
The worst to me - and it does happen. Is the over-zealous instructor who insists on having two students for the weekend. Then disappears Sunday morning, not telling any of the organizers. He leaves his friend, an instructor, a green student and tells his friend to tell us that the blue is ready for solo. (And you don't have to imagine, because you already know like I do -- that blue is no where ready to be a solo.)
Are there other traits? I'm sure you have your own war stories to tell us.
As an event organizer, you quickly pick up who is good (not necessarily as an instructor but as a person) by how many times they are requested. We have several that get three to four requests per DE.
What makes a poor instructor - the type you never want to invite back? One that you get a student complaint from that is legit. A person who has no input for the student other than "turn left, turn right." Who doesn't stay with the student after a session just to go over what was done. One that doesn't take the time to meet the student before their first session to find out what goals the student has.
The worst to me - and it does happen. Is the over-zealous instructor who insists on having two students for the weekend. Then disappears Sunday morning, not telling any of the organizers. He leaves his friend, an instructor, a green student and tells his friend to tell us that the blue is ready for solo. (And you don't have to imagine, because you already know like I do -- that blue is no where ready to be a solo.)
Are there other traits? I'm sure you have your own war stories to tell us.
02-23-2009, 05:45 PM
#35
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Great thread guys. My criteria for the ideal instructor are:
a person who can drive the track at high speed with outstanding smoothness and absolutely no drama while explaining to his student what he is doing and why.
a person who has a lot of patience and intuition - able to detect, define and comprehend the student's needs.
has impeccable on-track manners and instructs the student in proper etiquette and why it is important. "Attitude" detection and correction is important.
does not overwhelm the student, nor push the student beyond his or her limits, matches his teaching to the goals of the student in other words.
is there for the student in spite of the fact his/her car is broken - will stay for the entire event to maintain continuity with the student.
has a natural flair for teaching and is highly motivated by the "reward" when the student finally "gets it".
shows proper enthusiasm for progress and provides a calm by appreciative learning environment.
On the National Program, as far as I am concerned it is a minimum standard designed to improve the program. It is in no way a substitute for twenty odd days of in-car mentoring by a senior instructor. We use the National Test as kind of a graduating ceremony, but it does not replace our highly evolved Instructor Training Program. Candidates for the program must have a perfect driving record at DE for a full season. Any black flags for other than a mechanical bar the person until a year has passed. Many good cadidates wash out of the training program because of an inability to communicate, great drivers yes, but teachers .. not so much.
Best,
a person who can drive the track at high speed with outstanding smoothness and absolutely no drama while explaining to his student what he is doing and why.
a person who has a lot of patience and intuition - able to detect, define and comprehend the student's needs.
has impeccable on-track manners and instructs the student in proper etiquette and why it is important. "Attitude" detection and correction is important.
does not overwhelm the student, nor push the student beyond his or her limits, matches his teaching to the goals of the student in other words.
is there for the student in spite of the fact his/her car is broken - will stay for the entire event to maintain continuity with the student.
has a natural flair for teaching and is highly motivated by the "reward" when the student finally "gets it".
shows proper enthusiasm for progress and provides a calm by appreciative learning environment.
On the National Program, as far as I am concerned it is a minimum standard designed to improve the program. It is in no way a substitute for twenty odd days of in-car mentoring by a senior instructor. We use the National Test as kind of a graduating ceremony, but it does not replace our highly evolved Instructor Training Program. Candidates for the program must have a perfect driving record at DE for a full season. Any black flags for other than a mechanical bar the person until a year has passed. Many good cadidates wash out of the training program because of an inability to communicate, great drivers yes, but teachers .. not so much.
Best,
02-23-2009, 05:50 PM
#36
Rennlist Member
I am paying CLOSE attention to all the comments here because my new assignment this year for LSR PCA as an advanced instructor is to work with other instructors to help elevate their driving.
02-23-2009, 05:56 PM
#37
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I think the PCA national program was originally designed to gain some degree of consistency. Does the program claim to make a instructor a good instructor immediately? No. Experience in the 3 skills Larry spoke is what it takes, and that comes with windshield time and communication skills. When you are recommended to become an instructor you should be run through a region assessment by a few different region instructors. Then invited to the National program if all are in agreement. Then for the first year of instructing, placed into a mentorship program. Someone that you (as a new instructor) can go to for experience to be drawn on. This can also be a gradual level of instruction. 1st year instructor with mentor, only able to instruct initial green students. And have an experienced instructor randomly visit the new green student to evaluate the new instructor. And so on...Just my opinions and thoughts...
02-23-2009, 05:58 PM
#38
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BTW, I don't know how many of you know Coco (www.trackschedule.com) but she truly taught me something, that I thank her for - and now would like to share.
If you have a novice instructor -- it is better to place them with a blue student. A blue student already knows where the corner workers are, what line he/she is driving, the flags, etc. and is out there working on becoming smoother. For the novice instructor, they can concentrate on the driving parts and not worry about all the other parts - which could lead to a distraction.
A more experienced instructor knows how to initiate a green student to becoming an alert, aware, courteous driver. Goes with the territory.
You see we always started novice instructors with green students - figuring neither would know that the other -- well, whatever. The novice instructor gets more experience in teaching with a more experienced student. At our last DE we had one novice instructor that on the Friday night kept thinking -- what could I do to help my blue student? By Saturday afternoon, instructor and student were both grinning. They had a lot to offer each other.
Thanks Coco.
P.S. We encourage all students and all instructors to fill in an evaluation. That information is given to the student as a reminder as to how they did - and to the instructor, to let them know not to take all for granted. Meanwhile, we ask every participant (even our visitors) to fill in an event evaluation - it's like getting a report card. Keeps us on our toes -- and helps us improve each time.
If you have a novice instructor -- it is better to place them with a blue student. A blue student already knows where the corner workers are, what line he/she is driving, the flags, etc. and is out there working on becoming smoother. For the novice instructor, they can concentrate on the driving parts and not worry about all the other parts - which could lead to a distraction.
A more experienced instructor knows how to initiate a green student to becoming an alert, aware, courteous driver. Goes with the territory.
You see we always started novice instructors with green students - figuring neither would know that the other -- well, whatever. The novice instructor gets more experience in teaching with a more experienced student. At our last DE we had one novice instructor that on the Friday night kept thinking -- what could I do to help my blue student? By Saturday afternoon, instructor and student were both grinning. They had a lot to offer each other.
Thanks Coco.
P.S. We encourage all students and all instructors to fill in an evaluation. That information is given to the student as a reminder as to how they did - and to the instructor, to let them know not to take all for granted. Meanwhile, we ask every participant (even our visitors) to fill in an event evaluation - it's like getting a report card. Keeps us on our toes -- and helps us improve each time.
02-23-2009, 06:16 PM
#40
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Mille grazie!
02-23-2009, 06:27 PM
#41
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Sounds like Bob's region is one of those that is different from what I suspect you are using as a reference (as I once did). There are others I am aware of, and likely many more than that. We should discuss this further over some beers! (just what is "a beer"???)
02-23-2009, 06:27 PM
#42
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The original question actually asked how one identifies an instructor who should not be instructing; presumably so he or she might be replaced by the type of instructor everyone's been trying to describe here.
02-23-2009, 06:28 PM
#43
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I think the PCA national program was originally designed to gain some degree of consistency. Does the program claim to make a instructor a good instructor immediately? No. Experience in the 3 skills Larry spoke is what it takes, and that comes with windshield time and communication skills. When you are recommended to become an instructor you should be run through a region assessment by a few different region instructors. Then invited to the National program if all are in agreement. Then for the first year of instructing, placed into a mentorship program. Someone that you (as a new instructor) can go to for experience to be drawn on. This can also be a gradual level of instruction. 1st year instructor with mentor, only able to instruct initial green students. And have an experienced instructor randomly visit the new green student to evaluate the new instructor. And so on...Just my opinions and thoughts...
02-23-2009, 06:49 PM
#44
Rennlist Member
I think this a great idea. Frankly, I'd love to get some "official" feedback from my students. I always ask throughout the weekend if I'm communicating in an effective manner and whether there's anything else they'd like me to do (e.g. additional demonstration rides, talk more, talk less, etc.) and usually I find that feedback helpful. However, I think a student is likely to be more candid on an evaluation form, particularly if they are asked to name areas where the instructor could improve and/or suggestions for improvement.
02-23-2009, 06:50 PM
#45
I think this a great idea. Frankly, I'd love to get some "official" feedback from my students. I always ask throughout the weekend if I'm communicating in an effective manner and whether there's anything else they'd like me to do (e.g. additional demonstration rides, talk more, talk less, etc.) and usually I find that feedback helpful. However, I think a student is likely to be more candid on an evaluation form, particularly if they are asked to name areas where the instructor could improve and/or suggestions for improvement.
Please post.