Chads996

Oh jeezus...here we go.

BrianKeithSmith

Sorry. I'll take it back... My point was more that our actions on daily basis are, in some cases, a vehicle that allows stupidity to be carried out by others...

I agree with Geoffrey - some guy wants to wear an M - let him. Don't nanny-state him. We've got enough of that to deal with in day-2-day life. It's his head. It doesn't affect anyone else.

If he's driving a car that's oiling down the track, that's a different gig - that affects a bunch of other people.

BrianKeithSmith

Listen I'm out of this from a political standpoint, Anything you do or say to carry it forward at this point is on you, not me. I said I apologized, and I'm out of that portion of the conversation.

Back to our regularly scheduled broadcasting.

ltc

LVDell

no popcorn or instigation needed.

BrianKeithSmith

Back to the topic - just as a point of reference - when I bought my first helmet I did so on impulse without knowing the differences of SA/M/etc. I bought a Simpson. It was an M version.

After my first 3 events, an instructor pointed out that my helmet was an M and that I should get an SA. I thought - "Oh great, I've got to buy a new helmet". I called Simpson, they said no problem. $80 is all that was required to convert my M to an SA. In the case of Simpson, the shell was the same, the only difference was the lining. The M version did not have a fire-resistant lining, and the SA did. So they relined it, replaced the sticker, and mailed it back.

So in essence, structurally, the helmets were pretty much identical between the M and the SA.

LVDell

Good data point Brian. Hopefully that is something they still do (any possibly other manufacturers). In case anybody does a search in the future about helmets that is a good option for somebody to know about that they can convert the helmet.

RDL

BKS, hence my question early on in this thread. It is my understanding that several of the companies that make both SA and M make structurally the same helmet with different liners. The difference in ratings being one is put through a different test. This does not mean the other is inferior, just that it was not tested in the same manner.
For DE, DE only, I think this thread has made a mountain out of a mole hill.

Tom W

I don't see the relevance of getting all upset about the M-rated helmet not being tested for roll bar impact. What percentage of DE cars contain a cage or roll bar? In many/most DEs I've been a part of, the use of a roll bar or cage, 6-point harness, fire rated suit, etc. is optional. Why would you insist a newbie driving a completely stock car in their cotton shirt and jeans needs to purchase an SA-rated helmet? People who decide to add a roll bar or cage, seat, harness, HANS and other safety features generally choose to do so due to their assessment of the risk/benefit/cost. Why should the helmet be any different? I agree that a helmet should be required, I disagree that an SA-rated helmet should be the only type allowed as I see no real basis for the requirement (other than the emotional one of - "it's better").

RDL

The one that does not get you (expletive deleted) in trouble.

LVDell

Sounds like maybe the material cost isn't much more (if anything) which allows them to make the M class helmets all but fire retardant. No sense in manufacturing another shell and padding set if you don't have to and can still give the M class a high level of impact support.

I don't think anybody is getting upset about it. Just trying to understand the latitude that should be given and the education that should accompany the various level of risks. I for one have stated my position but through the course of this thread feel that maybe the M option isn't such a bad idea if we have a set of guidelines that are followed for the allowance of such a helmet.

va122

My region has helmets for rental for virgins.( We don't like to sacrifice ours. )

We do allow M ratings for AutoX...But we rent SA lids as well.

My concern is some Motorcycle helmets are like 3/4 helmets (a beanie and sides) There must be a specification full face M or something so someone new drives hours to get to the track and shows up with a Harley style beanie and have to go home if all the rentals are done.

todinlaw

Dell its my understanding that the big downside to M helmets is the fire proof issue. but as to what do do for the new DE student, Our region has purchased about 4 or 5 loner helmets to accommodate people who want to go for a taste of the track ride and if we find a new student present with the wrong or outdated helmet, rather than send them packing we give them a loner.

DarkSideDE

Why did our organization go with SA? After many conversations "the helmet experts," it seemed the obvious choice. First, many DE drivers do make the move into racing. PCA does not accept M helmets for racing, so here is a savings for some. Another reason, and this was the clincher -- was - in an SA helmet, if something happens, your head in your helmet hears, bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, bump, crack. However, in an M helmet, you're head will hear, bump, bump, bump, crack, bump, craaa-aaaack, bump CRACK.

So maybe it is just a matter of an individual listening to what is out there - and what his or her needs really are. But if this is a sport than one plans on participating in a lot, and moving up -- silly to spend money on an M - when an SA seems to be good at any race or DE around the country.

BTW -- www.clubregistration.net for an SA helmet at $199. Are there some out there for less, possibly, I haven't investigated. But knowing how expensive it can get to buy a helmet -- that seems extremely reasonable.

Oh, and Dell - the guys here are right, having spare helmets around a track event is great. What a nice way to break in the potential new greenies for a taste of the track without them worrying about buying a helmet for a hot lap...

LVDell

I agree, Frank's suggestion of having 4 or 5 loaner helmets is a good idea. I am going to work on that.

Would need to procure funding for something like that. Time to see who all is interested in donating "extra" funds to the club in these tough times.

Great suggestions and insight from everybody!