Brumos #58 Found to Be 12 lbs Underweight
01-29-2009, 11:16 AM
#16
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01-29-2009, 11:28 AM
#18
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As much as I am a die hard Porsche fan and that Brumos is my favorite team in DP, they should lose the win and all points earned. 12 pounds is not insignificant at all when you consider how tight the battle was between 58 and 01. 12 pounds underweight is cheating, intentionally or not. In PCA club racing, you get DQ if you are 1 pound underweight and there are no stakes involved other than bragging rights and spare change contingency money. The watches are tainted.... WAIT what does the grand am rule book say???? That is what really matters I guess.
I agree 100% that rules are rules and I would be perturbed if II got beat (assuming I was in a position to win, ever) by a car that failed post race inspection. However, Grand-Am issued a judgement and a penalty. Good enough for me, they make the rules and they say the win sticks.
01-29-2009, 11:56 AM
#20
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This is actually pretty consistent in their post race tech penalties.
Last year the ST car that won the first race had a fuel tank that was larger than allowed and they received a monetary penalty and points taken away.
At least they are consistent with the post race tech situation.
Last year the ST car that won the first race had a fuel tank that was larger than allowed and they received a monetary penalty and points taken away.
At least they are consistent with the post race tech situation.
01-29-2009, 12:19 PM
#21
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DD was busy collecting rubber & all crap during his cool down lap which of course is normal but I'm sure they were worried with it since they were running low on fuel and oil loss they had.
it was due to many factors, at least the low fuel and some missing oil & maybe coolant. It's not that they deliberately cheated but that they were running their weight so close to the minimum. When you take that risk, you some times might end up too low on weight and they you're not within the rules anymore.
And whether it's 12, 50 or 100 lbs is not being silly. There is a set limit and if you go below, you're below. Anything else is speculating and that's what you're doing, I don't think there should be room for speculation.
Let's say 12 lbs equals 0.2 sec/lap, 50 equals 0.5 / lap and so on, how much advantage do you have to have when it becomes too much?
Seriously, how much?
I bet you can't tell and so can't I, that's why there should not be a grey area.
+1
If Grand Am fined and penalized them then those must be the rules. I don't really know.
As far as 12 lbs vs 50 vs 100, that's just getting silly.
Driver/team points and monetary fines are pretty universal in racing. Why shouldn't they be acceptable in Rolex?
The fact that it was a 24 hour race my have a different tolerance than a 250 mile sprint as far as rules/penalties. Again, I don't know but 12 lbs could have been due to a lot of factors. Implying cheating is a little unfair at this point.
As far as 12 lbs vs 50 vs 100, that's just getting silly.
Driver/team points and monetary fines are pretty universal in racing. Why shouldn't they be acceptable in Rolex?
The fact that it was a 24 hour race my have a different tolerance than a 250 mile sprint as far as rules/penalties. Again, I don't know but 12 lbs could have been due to a lot of factors. Implying cheating is a little unfair at this point.
And whether it's 12, 50 or 100 lbs is not being silly. There is a set limit and if you go below, you're below. Anything else is speculating and that's what you're doing, I don't think there should be room for speculation.
Let's say 12 lbs equals 0.2 sec/lap, 50 equals 0.5 / lap and so on, how much advantage do you have to have when it becomes too much?
Seriously, how much?
I bet you can't tell and so can't I, that's why there should not be a grey area.
^ + 1
I've seen karts DQ'd for being less than 1lb underweight. Hey, who forced you to run so close to the limit in the first place. (FWIW, I won't let my son get within 5# of the minimum weight, since scales can vary over the course of a weekend.)
Rules are the rules.
Period
Of course you are dealing with Grand Am...i.e NA$CAR, so rules are 'flexible'.
They should be DQ'd and the trophy/win awarded to the next car/team in line.
Simple.
But it won't happen, not in the NA$CAR world.
I've seen karts DQ'd for being less than 1lb underweight. Hey, who forced you to run so close to the limit in the first place. (FWIW, I won't let my son get within 5# of the minimum weight, since scales can vary over the course of a weekend.)
Rules are the rules.
Period
Of course you are dealing with Grand Am...i.e NA$CAR, so rules are 'flexible'.
They should be DQ'd and the trophy/win awarded to the next car/team in line.
Simple.
But it won't happen, not in the NA$CAR world.
01-29-2009, 12:20 PM
#22
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I guess it depends on what the rulebook says should happen in this event. If the book was followed then there's no harm/no foul. If there was an exception made because of the popularity of the winning entry, then I agree that's wrong.
01-29-2009, 12:23 PM
#23
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DD was busy collecting rubber & all crap during his cool down lap which of course is normal but I'm sure they were worried with it since they were running low on fuel and oil loss they had.
it was due to many factors, at least the low fuel and some missing oil & maybe coolant. It's not that they deliberately cheated but that they were running their weight so close to the minimum. When you take that risk, you some times might end up too low on weight and they you're not within the rules anymore.
And whether it's 12, 50 or 100 lbs is not being silly. There is a set limit and if you go below, you're below. Anything else is speculating and that's what you're doing, I don't think there should be room for speculation.
Let's say 12 lbs equals 0.2 sec/lap, 50 equals 0.5 / lap and so on, how much advantage do you have to have when it becomes too much?
Seriously, how much?
I bet you can't tell and so can't I, that's why there should not be a grey area.
+1
They of course could but why? Generally in all racing the weight is in "racing condition" and I don't see a problem with that.
If Grand Am fined and penalized them then those must be the rules. I don't really know.
As far as 12 lbs vs 50 vs 100, that's just getting silly.
Driver/team points and monetary fines are pretty universal in racing. Why shouldn't they be acceptable in Rolex?
The fact that it was a 24 hour race my have a different tolerance than a 250 mile sprint as far as rules/penalties. Again, I don't know but 12 lbs could have been due to a lot of factors. Implying cheating is a little unfair at this point.
As far as 12 lbs vs 50 vs 100, that's just getting silly.
Driver/team points and monetary fines are pretty universal in racing. Why shouldn't they be acceptable in Rolex?
The fact that it was a 24 hour race my have a different tolerance than a 250 mile sprint as far as rules/penalties. Again, I don't know but 12 lbs could have been due to a lot of factors. Implying cheating is a little unfair at this point.
And whether it's 12, 50 or 100 lbs is not being silly. There is a set limit and if you go below, you're below. Anything else is speculating and that's what you're doing, I don't think there should be room for speculation.
Let's say 12 lbs equals 0.2 sec/lap, 50 equals 0.5 / lap and so on, how much advantage do you have to have when it becomes too much?
Seriously, how much?
I bet you can't tell and so can't I, that's why there should not be a grey area.
^ + 1
I've seen karts DQ'd for being less than 1lb underweight. Hey, who forced you to run so close to the limit in the first place. (FWIW, I won't let my son get within 5# of the minimum weight, since scales can vary over the course of a weekend.)
Rules are the rules.
Period
Of course you are dealing with Grand Am...i.e NA$CAR, so rules are 'flexible'.
They should be DQ'd and the trophy/win awarded to the next car/team in line.
Simple.
But it won't happen, not in the NA$CAR world.
I've seen karts DQ'd for being less than 1lb underweight. Hey, who forced you to run so close to the limit in the first place. (FWIW, I won't let my son get within 5# of the minimum weight, since scales can vary over the course of a weekend.)
Rules are the rules.
Period
Of course you are dealing with Grand Am...i.e NA$CAR, so rules are 'flexible'.
They should be DQ'd and the trophy/win awarded to the next car/team in line.
Simple.
But it won't happen, not in the NA$CAR world.
They of course could but why? Generally in all racing the weight is in "racing condition" and I don't see a problem with that.
01-29-2009, 12:43 PM
#24
Drifting
I generally agree that rules are rules and need to be adhered to, however this outcome is consistant with past GrandAm rulings. I know it has happened in GS and ST and I believe it happened to the Gainsco DP car before too, so I don't think Brumos is getting extra special treatment. Apparently they don't like changing race results after the fact, we'll see if the lost owner points have an impact at the end of the season. Still, if I was driving the 01 car I'd be pissed. I'd love to hear Whine Pablo Montoya, Pruett, Rojas, and Ganasi's uncensored opinions!
01-29-2009, 01:19 PM
#25
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Now that the Brumos car is deemed anorexic, will they still slap on restrictions to the 4.0L flat six?
So how hot did the #58 run in the closing laps with coolant and oil loss?
It's good there's no multiple race rule for DP engines.
So how hot did the #58 run in the closing laps with coolant and oil loss?
It's good there's no multiple race rule for DP engines.
01-29-2009, 01:37 PM
#26
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$5000 fine and driver/team points penalty.
12 lbs wouldn't have made a difference. +/- one HP? 2 gallons of gas?
Doesn't seem like a malicious thing, miscalculation.
12 lbs also doesn't seem like any gigantic advantage over anyone else.
Take the penalty, good, keep the win, good.
12 lbs wouldn't have made a difference. +/- one HP? 2 gallons of gas?
Doesn't seem like a malicious thing, miscalculation.
12 lbs also doesn't seem like any gigantic advantage over anyone else.
Take the penalty, good, keep the win, good.
Bwaaaaa , you gotta be kidding ! If JPM had won and then found to be underweight , the uproar here would be deafening .........
They should have a 10 second penalty applied this would give then second ...
As much as I am a die hard Porsche fan and that Brumos is my favorite team in DP, they should lose the win and all points earned. 12 pounds is not insignificant at all when you consider how tight the battle was between 58 and 01. 12 pounds underweight is cheating, intentionally or not. In PCA club racing, you get DQ if you are 1 pound underweight and there are no stakes involved other than bragging rights and spare change contingency money. The watches are tainted.... WAIT what does the grand am rule book say???? That is what really matters I guess.
Maybe if DD had 12Lb, F1 nuts like JPM , there would be no problem .........
JPM 3 out of 3 .... 24hr Daytona "Owned" by Ganassi ..........Booyacka !
01-29-2009, 01:45 PM
#28
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$5000 fine and driver/team points penalty.
I can see where a whopping $5000 penalty would deter something like this from happening again.
Hmmn, $5000 vs a Rolex24 win.....Definition of no brainer.
Yet another example of what happens when you bring NA$CAR values/judgements/rulings into road racing.
I can see where a whopping $5000 penalty would deter something like this from happening again.
Hmmn, $5000 vs a Rolex24 win.....Definition of no brainer.
Yet another example of what happens when you bring NA$CAR values/judgements/rulings into road racing.
01-29-2009, 01:48 PM
#30
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$5000 fine and driver/team points penalty.
I can see where a whopping $5000 penalty would deter something like this from happening again.
Hmmn, $5000 vs a Rolex24 win.....Definition of no brainer.
Yet another example of what happens when you bring NA$CAR values/judgements/rulings into road racing.
I can see where a whopping $5000 penalty would deter something like this from happening again.
Hmmn, $5000 vs a Rolex24 win.....Definition of no brainer.
Yet another example of what happens when you bring NA$CAR values/judgements/rulings into road racing.
Next race I'm sure everyone will be underweight
This kind of violation deserves a 10 second penalty .........
especially after viewing DD attempts after the race , they knew they where underweight...