Brumos #58 Found to Be 12 lbs Underweight
01-29-2009, 05:11 PM
#61
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Simple.
They chose to run the car too close to the weight limit.
Period.
As long as the error is outside the error in the measurement equipment (in this case scales), then they violated the rules (willingly or not).
I've seen kids DQ'd for being 1/8" over rear width.....OK, did 1/8" make a difference?
It doesn't matter...they chose to run the kart that close to the limit and they failed.
DQ, go to last on the results sheet.
Ask 10 kids with national karting experience 'what happens when you come in under weight'.
You'll get the same answer every time.
The rules are taught at a young age.
They chose to run the car too close to the weight limit.
Period.
As long as the error is outside the error in the measurement equipment (in this case scales), then they violated the rules (willingly or not).
I've seen kids DQ'd for being 1/8" over rear width.....OK, did 1/8" make a difference?
It doesn't matter...they chose to run the kart that close to the limit and they failed.
DQ, go to last on the results sheet.
Ask 10 kids with national karting experience 'what happens when you come in under weight'.
You'll get the same answer every time.
The rules are taught at a young age.
01-29-2009, 05:18 PM
#63
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Red herring.
You've posted a weight rule. You've posted a list of penalties assessed. So what ?
Every race organization has guidelines for penalties. For example, SCCA has them, and you won't find them published in Fastrak or listed in the GCR, but they EXIST and are agreed-upon by the Stewards community.
The real discussion is about Grand-Am administrative rules regarding HOW penalties are to be assessed, and how they are applied. I can guarantee you that there ARE guidelines as to penalties assessed...they may be written in pencil...but they exist.
Grand-Am's past penalty-history seems to be consistant with this occurance.
You've posted a weight rule. You've posted a list of penalties assessed. So what ?
Every race organization has guidelines for penalties. For example, SCCA has them, and you won't find them published in Fastrak or listed in the GCR, but they EXIST and are agreed-upon by the Stewards community.
The real discussion is about Grand-Am administrative rules regarding HOW penalties are to be assessed, and how they are applied. I can guarantee you that there ARE guidelines as to penalties assessed...they may be written in pencil...but they exist.
Grand-Am's past penalty-history seems to be consistant with this occurance.
So how does one know the rules before entering the race?
As mentioned, can I run 50lbs under the "limit" and still be classified?
Sorry, it's just seems wrong....but then again, I'm a simple person.
01-29-2009, 05:19 PM
#64
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i know about weight, i use to cross the scales after every drag race and karting race, my point here is this was not a sprint race, this was a 24 hour endurance race, so your telling me that on the last pit stop they should have thrown a couple of lead weights some where in the car, my point is all of the cars in the race are getting the crap beat out of them, there should be a dry weight.
Are there are other "rules" whicih aren't really "rules", but more like guidelines?
01-29-2009, 05:22 PM
#65
Drifting
01-29-2009, 05:22 PM
#66
Maybe Grand AM could just put "ish" after the lbs. in the rule book or maybe the word "around" before the weight. I am not saying that I do not understand how a car can come across the scales underweight after 24 hours, it is just that if you keep moving the line at will, so will the teams. This would not pass with any other series that I can think of, but I could be wrong about that.
To Professor's point about the SCCA, It has been my understanding that all car infractions result in a DQ at that event if they are proven or if the competitor withdraws because of it. I can tell that if a car @ the runoffs came across the scales 2 lbs under that would be the end of it.
To Professor's point about the SCCA, It has been my understanding that all car infractions result in a DQ at that event if they are proven or if the competitor withdraws because of it. I can tell that if a car @ the runoffs came across the scales 2 lbs under that would be the end of it.
01-29-2009, 05:25 PM
#67
King of Cool
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For example if your engine is too large displacement, you get $5 penalty and lose points.
As a matter of fact, I'm planning on signing up for Grand-Am's next season with a DP car that has a tuned down 8194 cc top fuel engine in it, with about 2000 hp & 1500 lbs power to weight ratio, I'm thinking it should be pretty competitive on long straights of Daytona.
They'll fine me $5005 and take my points away but who cares, I'll win bunch of watches!
01-29-2009, 06:10 PM
#69
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And how does the Grand-Am brain trust come up with such a determination?
(I am going to guess it involves a miner's helmet and proctology, given their NA$CAR influence)
No, it's not 50 pounds....it's 36.2 lbs....that is the limit of significant
(always use an odd/exact number...it will give people a moment of pause)
Sorry, I never held Grand-Am in high regard (given the background behind the series), this just reinforces it.
01-29-2009, 06:25 PM
#71
Formula One Spin Doctor
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Brumos was underweight (maybe DD lost 12lbs of fiuids or he's on NutriSystem and it suddenly kicked in) and that clearly violates the rules. If I were in charge they'd forfeit the win. But I'm not and Grand Am has ruled- end of story.
The real question is how did JPM know?? He said it was unfair- and it was/is. STILL, save it for the race committee not the camera.
The real question is how did JPM know?? He said it was unfair- and it was/is. STILL, save it for the race committee not the camera.
DD is the unfair bastard bub , he and Brumos knew the car was underweight , you need to focus your anger here ....Ever thought the car was underweight the whole race and they tried in the last few pit stops to make the weight by adding xtra fluids ,,,, Yes conjecture on my part , but the point is, we do not know and the victory will always be tainted
JPM is 3 out of 3 regardless of how GA or Brumos Fans want to spin it .....
01-29-2009, 07:41 PM
#72
Perfect Angel
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Bwaaaaa , you gotta be kidding ! If JPM had won and then found to be underweight , the uproar here would be deafening .........
They should have a 10 second penalty applied this would give then second ...
+10
Maybe if DD had 12Lb, F1 nuts like JPM , there would be no problem .........
JPM 3 out of 3 .... 24hr Daytona "Owned" by Ganassi ..........Booyacka !
They should have a 10 second penalty applied this would give then second ...
+10
Maybe if DD had 12Lb, F1 nuts like JPM , there would be no problem .........
JPM 3 out of 3 .... 24hr Daytona "Owned" by Ganassi ..........Booyacka !
01-29-2009, 07:46 PM
#74
Perfect Angel
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If the ruling were inconstant then everyone can cry foul but it's not. Other teams have been penalized in exactly the same manner and benefited by keeping their finishing position in exactly the same manner. The argument is over, they ruled.
If they had a hard rule about DQing for weight infractions and decided not to in this case then yes, JPM wins but they don't.
Grand-Am ruled. Others have benefited from those rules in the series history as mentioned earlier.
There really isn't anything else to discuss.
If they had a hard rule about DQing for weight infractions and decided not to in this case then yes, JPM wins but they don't.
Grand-Am ruled. Others have benefited from those rules in the series history as mentioned earlier.
There really isn't anything else to discuss.
01-29-2009, 08:08 PM
#75
Formula One Spin Doctor
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