Tell me more about slicks?
01-12-2009, 10:04 PM
#16
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Anderson, 928, Laguna seca, PCA race, 2008, toyos--- change tires--- slicks----1:34 to 1:31.
All your BMW brothers at Laguna seca, sears, and thunderhill have done this once or twice. many of them are 2 seconds faster on their slick set ups vs their DOT set ups. I dont have the actual data, but you can query, Trefethen, lang, sofronas, holder, cervantes, for their time differnces.
Do you think slicks are no faster than a good set of hoosiers??
mk
All your BMW brothers at Laguna seca, sears, and thunderhill have done this once or twice. many of them are 2 seconds faster on their slick set ups vs their DOT set ups. I dont have the actual data, but you can query, Trefethen, lang, sofronas, holder, cervantes, for their time differnces.
Do you think slicks are no faster than a good set of hoosiers??
mk
I tend to agree, as long as they are similar compounds. The slick is probably a little more stable through a race, but not sure if its out right faster.
Care to share this data? An valid data please, not 3 years ago i ran xx.xx on DOT's now i run xx.xx on slicks.
Same day, same car, same driver, same track, only tire change being the difference. Then see, how much fasterit is setup for sliclks. That would be valid data, not heresay
Care to share this data? An valid data please, not 3 years ago i ran xx.xx on DOT's now i run xx.xx on slicks.
Same day, same car, same driver, same track, only tire change being the difference. Then see, how much fasterit is setup for sliclks. That would be valid data, not heresay
01-12-2009, 11:29 PM
#17
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Mark do you not think Hoos are quicker than the Toyos though?
01-13-2009, 04:19 AM
#19
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Well I can land some BFG R-1s to Australia for about $2100au or have been quoted $2600au for Dunlop slicks. I described our race style and season to him and he thought I should get about 75% of the season out of one set. Perhaps he's trying to dangle the hook, but I'm leaning towards the slicks. I'll shop around a bit more.
01-13-2009, 09:59 AM
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maybe bryan watts can chime in - he has a lot of experience with various slicks and i know his dad recently ran their car on dot's and slicks in the same weekend...he's also seen the guys in slower cars on dot's mixing it up with the faster cars on cold slicks (which was my point about the sprint races)...
if it's a short race, you might spend a chunk of it getting the slicks up to temp while the guys with DOT tires are going 100% from the start...so while the slicks might ultimately be faster, you could end up having to fight your way around the cars on DOT's that didn't have to wait for the tires to warm up...just another variable to consider
01-13-2009, 01:23 PM
#21
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Not all Michelin racing slicks are super expensive. If you run cup car sizes, yes. I run 27-65/18 and 30-65/18 in S8 (the medium one) compound and a set of 4 was less that the last set of Hoosiers I bought.
I have no wear or performance data to offer as it was raining and wet at next to last event and 32-40 degrees at the last one. I could only get the tires up to 130 degrees ( inside) with 11 laps and the car was slipping and sliding all over the place. Specs say tire is designed to perform at 65 degrees F (ambient) or higher. I'm sure that in much warmer temps, they still will take a few laps to get to optimum performance level. Not sure that's what you want in a 6-lap race.
I have no wear or performance data to offer as it was raining and wet at next to last event and 32-40 degrees at the last one. I could only get the tires up to 130 degrees ( inside) with 11 laps and the car was slipping and sliding all over the place. Specs say tire is designed to perform at 65 degrees F (ambient) or higher. I'm sure that in much warmer temps, they still will take a few laps to get to optimum performance level. Not sure that's what you want in a 6-lap race.
01-13-2009, 03:50 PM
#22
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absolutely, but how much is the debate. Lets just say, in races where it matters, Im not shaking in my boots when i see a fast competitor with a new set of Hoosiers. (and Im on a real new'ish set of toyos from the WC GT dumpster). What is the difference? I would be willing to bet that someone on the very edge on both tires might see a .5 to .75 of a second difference, which in my racing is huge! I can tell you that when the hoosiers turn to stones after 15 heat cycles they can loose more than 2 seconds and be boarderline dangerous.
mk
mk
01-13-2009, 04:18 PM
#23
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I think much depends on the driver who may or may not be able to tell. Toyos require a little different style than say a hoosier and a slick is one step beyond that. you can very easily get quite comfortable with a slick and hit all your marks that you have for hoosiers or other DOT tires and never be able to take advantage of the slick.
I think you need to get the slicks warm in the warm up laps, and they might take a lap or two to come in. track temp, car set up, all sorts of things come into play here. On that same thought, toyos do last a long time in a race without going off as much as say a Hoosier.
Mk
I think you need to get the slicks warm in the warm up laps, and they might take a lap or two to come in. track temp, car set up, all sorts of things come into play here. On that same thought, toyos do last a long time in a race without going off as much as say a Hoosier.
Mk
i've seen similar results going from toyos to hoosiers...my comparison was with hankooks/hoosiers/bfg's and slicks which are a good bit faster than toyos...
maybe bryan watts can chime in - he has a lot of experience with various slicks and i know his dad recently ran their car on dot's and slicks in the same weekend...he's also seen the guys in slower cars on dot's mixing it up with the faster cars on cold slicks (which was my point about the sprint races)...
if it's a short race, you might spend a chunk of it getting the slicks up to temp while the guys with DOT tires are going 100% from the start...so while the slicks might ultimately be faster, you could end up having to fight your way around the cars on DOT's that didn't have to wait for the tires to warm up...just another variable to consider
maybe bryan watts can chime in - he has a lot of experience with various slicks and i know his dad recently ran their car on dot's and slicks in the same weekend...he's also seen the guys in slower cars on dot's mixing it up with the faster cars on cold slicks (which was my point about the sprint races)...
if it's a short race, you might spend a chunk of it getting the slicks up to temp while the guys with DOT tires are going 100% from the start...so while the slicks might ultimately be faster, you could end up having to fight your way around the cars on DOT's that didn't have to wait for the tires to warm up...just another variable to consider
01-13-2009, 06:05 PM
#24
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However, they are pretty expensive - in Canadian pesos, Michelins are about $1700 a set, Pirellis $1500, Dunlops $1900. Preferred tires are the Michelins, you can push all of them to about 10 heat cycles but performance starts to fall off after the first few heat cycles. They do seem to go off a second or two a lap and then hold there until the end of their life, so I'll run them 10-12 heat cycles and then treat myself to a new set.
The real problem, cost wise, is that 6 laps is going to be a heat cycle and that could be pretty expensive. Hoosier R6, BFG R1, Michelin Pilot Sport Cup - all will last considerably longer then the slicks, but none will touch the slick performance - welcome to competition!
The real problem, cost wise, is that 6 laps is going to be a heat cycle and that could be pretty expensive. Hoosier R6, BFG R1, Michelin Pilot Sport Cup - all will last considerably longer then the slicks, but none will touch the slick performance - welcome to competition!
01-13-2009, 06:16 PM
#25
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01-13-2009, 08:49 PM
#28
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Ok so how long (approx) does it take to get the slicks up to temp. Our tracks and weather is generally pretty warm even through Winter (except for early mornings).
If I can get around in the first lap or lap and a half, are these babies going to be up to 10/10ths? or close to it?
If I can get around in the first lap or lap and a half, are these babies going to be up to 10/10ths? or close to it?
01-13-2009, 10:40 PM
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absolutely, but how much is the debate. Lets just say, in races where it matters, Im not shaking in my boots when i see a fast competitor with a new set of Hoosiers. (and Im on a real new'ish set of toyos from the WC GT dumpster). What is the difference? I would be willing to bet that someone on the very edge on both tires might see a .5 to .75 of a second difference, which in my racing is huge! I can tell you that when the hoosiers turn to stones after 15 heat cycles they can loose more than 2 seconds and be boarderline dangerous.
also, I can't imagine anyone wanting to race on 15 heat cycle hoosiers, they aren't even worth keeping as practice tires at that point...
I think much depends on the driver who may or may not be able to tell. Toyos require a little different style than say a hoosier and a slick is one step beyond that. you can very easily get quite comfortable with a slick and hit all your marks that you have for hoosiers or other DOT tires and never be able to take advantage of the slick.
Last edited by dmwhite; 01-13-2009 at 11:32 PM.
01-14-2009, 01:07 AM
#30
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again, in my experience, hoosiers/hankooks/bfgs are definitely more than .5 to .75 seconds faster a lap than toyos...given equal cars and drivers (assuming good drivers of course), the car on the hoosiers/hankooks/bfgs should be a good bit faster than than the car on toyos...
also, I can't imagine anyone wanting to race on 15 heat cycle hoosiers, they aren't even worth keeping as practice tires at that point...
all of my comparisons assume that the driver knows how to extract all of the performance of any tire he is running...imo, if a driver doesnt know how to do so, then they shouldnt be worrying about which tire is faster...
also, I can't imagine anyone wanting to race on 15 heat cycle hoosiers, they aren't even worth keeping as practice tires at that point...
all of my comparisons assume that the driver knows how to extract all of the performance of any tire he is running...imo, if a driver doesnt know how to do so, then they shouldnt be worrying about which tire is faster...