How do you honestly know if you........
#16
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Well...
Lap times, head-to-head comptetition, winning... they can all tell you if you are getting faster, but how? Where? Everyone reaches a point where human objective and subjective analysis will not cut it any longer. There is only one way to really tell you HOW you are doing it, and that is data. You can do one hell of a lot of improving without it, but in the end, it is the ultimate tool. It has a big mouth and it don't lie.
Whether you can utilize all the info is the next problem.
Lap times, head-to-head comptetition, winning... they can all tell you if you are getting faster, but how? Where? Everyone reaches a point where human objective and subjective analysis will not cut it any longer. There is only one way to really tell you HOW you are doing it, and that is data. You can do one hell of a lot of improving without it, but in the end, it is the ultimate tool. It has a big mouth and it don't lie.
Whether you can utilize all the info is the next problem.
#17
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Why bother with much beyond the easiest measure - lap times? If the lap time isn't going down (and the car is the same) you are not getting better.
If the car is changing in combination with the reduced lap time and you want to know if it's you or the car, then it's down to data acquisition to tell the tale or if you trust what you feel as you drive. In this case, it's practically impossible to tell if it's you or the car.
If the car is changing in combination with the reduced lap time and you want to know if it's you or the car, then it's down to data acquisition to tell the tale or if you trust what you feel as you drive. In this case, it's practically impossible to tell if it's you or the car.
#21
True, but you asked how you know you get better. Most people peak at some point and stop getting better. Its hard to keep pushing yourself and improving. There are 4 stages if you ask me:
Peak lap times -- can you go just as fast as anyone else
Consistency -- you can repeat that peak lap time over and over with a tenth or two
Race craft -- you learn to pass, setup passes and defend without blocking
Winning -- the end goal
Lather, rinse, repeat.
Peak lap times -- can you go just as fast as anyone else
Consistency -- you can repeat that peak lap time over and over with a tenth or two
Race craft -- you learn to pass, setup passes and defend without blocking
Winning -- the end goal
Lather, rinse, repeat.
And, as mentioned - data don't lie and it's good feedback on where you're good, where you're not.
#22
Nordschleife Master
True, but you asked how you know you get better. Most people peak at some point and stop getting better. Its hard to keep pushing yourself and improving. There are 4 stages if you ask me:
Peak lap times -- can you go just as fast as anyone else
Consistency -- you can repeat that peak lap time over and over with a tenth or two
Race craft -- you learn to pass, setup passes and defend without blocking
Winning -- the end goal
Lather, rinse, repeat.
Peak lap times -- can you go just as fast as anyone else
Consistency -- you can repeat that peak lap time over and over with a tenth or two
Race craft -- you learn to pass, setup passes and defend without blocking
Winning -- the end goal
Lather, rinse, repeat.
Certainly objective measures have been suggested, racing results and data. But I'm not sure he's satisfied. Perhaps I'm wrong (Lord knows...)
So,to the OP, what are your goals when you say better? Certainly we need to know your metric. Better at what specifically? Technical expertise, enjoyment, satisfaction...what?
#23
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Colin's "steps" are good ones, but only go so far. "Winning" only tells you if you have improved past the abilities of the cars and drivers that show up on given days. How do you know that you are continuing to improve at that point......and at what level are you winning? (this goes to my original question that the Doc just dismissed out of hand). Lap times and data are what I also would come back to for measuring improvement, and particularly consistency.
#25
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For me, success is going out and experiencing many different and variable things; Having fun, being "at one with the car," feeling all the nuances of synergistic driving, and coming back to the pits to share it with my mates. There can also be random situations with other drivers that provide rewarding entertainment. Even an off - well handled - can be satisfying in its own way. I've even managed to have fun even though my car is giving me fits lately.
You can tell that my success markers are not necessarily performance related. They are about the experience. If I had to rely on winning a race, it would surely be a miserable existance. As it is, I win every time I go out!
#26
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I just wanted to know how the driver/racer determines progress in his/her driving skills.......whether they be technical or recreational........
#27
Race Car
lap times, and data acquisition (if you have that), are excellent tools.
-you might also put a 'respected hot shoe' in your car and see what they can do... with the same equipment, and a stop watch, (or data acq), you'll have a much better idea what the car can really do.
I like how Colin broke out race craft, from lap times, etc ... a great driver can win with lesser equipment on a good day. -a good qualifying time is part of race craft.
once you (finally), start racing, I think you'll find its whole new track experience, and you'll be soaking up knowledge just like when you started DE's.
The learning curve will be steep for the 1st year. Accept that you'll be able to drop 2-4 seconds a lap after the 1st year. (or, you'll be 2 seconds off the pace the 1st year running W2W)
Edit: Also, you'll know the difference between catching a car, and PASSING a car...
totally different that a DE... no point bys for cars in class. (then again, pointing by 'leaders' will earn you respect in your 2nd season year)
-you might also put a 'respected hot shoe' in your car and see what they can do... with the same equipment, and a stop watch, (or data acq), you'll have a much better idea what the car can really do.
I like how Colin broke out race craft, from lap times, etc ... a great driver can win with lesser equipment on a good day. -a good qualifying time is part of race craft.
once you (finally), start racing, I think you'll find its whole new track experience, and you'll be soaking up knowledge just like when you started DE's.
The learning curve will be steep for the 1st year. Accept that you'll be able to drop 2-4 seconds a lap after the 1st year. (or, you'll be 2 seconds off the pace the 1st year running W2W)
Edit: Also, you'll know the difference between catching a car, and PASSING a car...
totally different that a DE... no point bys for cars in class. (then again, pointing by 'leaders' will earn you respect in your 2nd season year)
Last edited by mrbill_fl; 10-03-2008 at 01:20 PM.
#28
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#30
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Being fast in your own car only develops an understanding of your car. Additionally, you develop habits and skills that stagnate due to your clearly defined limits (from experience).
Go drive a different car with different handling characteristics and see how quickly you adapt. This will tell you exactly how well your overall skills have developed.