ECS

Have been tracking a 6GT3 and now a 997S. I did my first open wheel event at a track in France recently. The car was a Formula Renault. About 1000lbs with 195 horses with sequential. Similar to a Formula 3000; more reliable but with a lot less set-up options. In Europe you can buy a good used one for about 25K euros.

As you can imagine it was unbelievable in all respects. I am now seriously considering a change in my speed habit. My thought is to sell the P-car and get a basic sedan and use the extra proceeds to either buy a used open wheeler, radical, or use the money to get into a Skip Barber program. My concern however is the safety of the open wheel cars given their issue with taking off when rubbing wheel to wheel. Would appreciate hearing from anyone who has left the street P-car DE ranks to go into this more "pure" race car mode of extremely light weight dedicated racers.

Thanks.

Brian A.

oooh...he's got it bad.

chris walrod

Was it the 1600 or 2000cc model?

BrandonH

It's a regular topic of conversation so you'll find plenty of threads in the archives. I understand the appeal. I did a track day in my son's formula ford and I'm going to do a regional race this weekend. I think the crash risk is the biggest issue.

After seeing how fast a purpose built racecar can be, both in absolute terms as well as $/second, you could almost say that the sole justification to lug the weight and compromises of a production-based car around a racetrack is to provide a plenty of crush zone in all directions. Which is not at all a bad justification... From what 'everyone' says, open wheel wrecks are not all that common at the club level, the natural laws at work being more severely and strictly enforced than 13/13...

Scootin159

Are there any groups which allow you to run open-wheel cars in a DE?

sweanders

I've never driven a Radical or an open wheeler, but have tried light cars and it sure feels heavy stepping into a normal car again.

APKhaos

EMRA is right in your area, and run several open wheel groups. The 944Cup ran with them a couple of times at WG and Beaverun. They were a terrific group to run with. Well organized but very relaxed and helpful.
Eastern Motor Racing Association

Circuit Motorsports

Open wheel drivers are MUCH more gentlemanly on the course for the very reason you talk about. Contact sometimes ends very poorly for everyone involved.

Skip Barber is a great bang for the buck. If you price it out compared to what I spend on the FC you arne't spending that much more and it is a complete arrive and drive setup.

Before I forget. There is a race in November at Road Atlanta call the "ARRC" It's the national championship race for all the nonNational SCCA classes. There will be a number of open wheel classes that span some of the slower chepaer cars up to some of the fastest new open wheel cars.

As for running an open wheel in DE, most places you are out of luck, or even if they let you, you shouldn't. VIR club days has an open wheel group FWIW.

The best bet for something that is similar to what you ran and still run in DE is a Sports Racer from Stohr or a Radical.

As for crash safety. I'd much rather go through a crash in my car than most any regular car. The belt setup is ideal, my head is contained, as well as my body. Contact is very rare and in all the races I've been to I've seen more tintops upside down than open wheel cars.

Mike in Chi

I did a couple years of Skip when I started racing.

As CM said, it's great bang for the buck. I've found club racing to be much MORE expensive than Skippy, though you get much more track time with PCA CR, and their are more people on track with you. Your costs will very depending on how much prep and transport you do versus paying others to do it.

The people are great in both.

As to the safety of the cars, I personally demonstrated how strong the tub of a Skippy car is at Turn 7 of Road America my first year, by hooking it and ending up in the tire wall. I also saw a car do multiple barrrel rolls 10 feet off the ground, saw a car on its roll-hoop, and saw 30 feet of chain link fence taken out by one in the kink. But then, I've also witnessed plenty of wrecks in PCA CR.

The Skip cars are very strong, but there is not as much metal around you. And you have to remember, ALL race cars are inherently dangerous.

ausgeflippt951

Also it should be noted that open-wheel racing is expensive, usually considerably more expensive than for production cars. Additionally, with anything carbon tub, it's not really that repairable should you get into it with someone/-thing.

Can you really get an FR for $25k? Wow...

You've gotta be racing in order to use an open-wheeler. It's useless for any other application.

MTosi

Euro's, which equates to around 35k, about the price of a mid to early 90's formula atlantic.

prg

I'd advise against a formula renault if you want to use it in the U.S.A. Formula renault is an orphan class in the USA. You'll have a hard time selling the car. I believe it is stuck running either as a regional only formula S (grab bag class featuring every thing from ancient junk to retired indy cars) or as a woefully uncompetitive formula atlantic.

My personal belief is that the standard formula mazda is the speed/money * reliability * durability champion. $18-20k will get you a good car and some spares. They are the main battle tank of open wheel racing. Very stoutly built for an open wheel car. They tolerate off track excusions without tearing up their corners. Formula fords (1600cc no wings) and Formula continentals (2000cc + wings) tolerate such foolishness much less readily.
I raced a standard FM for 4 years. They do require much more intensive maintenace that a street car. Plan on a new set of sticker tires every weekend ($800/set) if you want to win. Used tires can be obtained for $200/set if you don't mind running mid-pack. Set up is pretty simple for an open wheeler.

If you want to go faster, Stohr has a distributor outside Atlanta. A Stohr f1000 is a very fast car with near Formula Atlantic speed. The proximity of support for a open wheel car is an important consideration. The Stohr may be biting off more than you want to chew for your first foray into open wheel racing. Something a little softer and slower may be a lot more forgiving of the inevitable rookie mistakes. The Stohrs are travelling at speeds where I personally prefer a carbon tub (and have paid a significant premium over a stohr F1000 to do so.)

I'd agree with the sentiments above that the only utility of these cars is for racing. I've run my old standard FM on 2 private track days with very fast street cars. It was completely unsatisfying (like bringing a tactical nuclear weapon to a knife fight). Racing them against other fast open wheelers will make you forget all about DE. Their is nothing like racing nose to gearbox at 2+ g's. Most open wheel racers are very courteous. Darwin's rules are far more effective than 13/13.

Before buying an open wheeler, I'd go to a local SCCA or NASA race and see what classes have good numbers. Having a car that hauls the mail but doesn't have any competition is pretty unsatisfying.

Mike K.

Tough to find much track time in open wheeled cars , sport racers are a lot easier but not much fun at DEs. Once you've tried downforce though, you never want to drive a street car on the track again

Circuit Motorsports

Want the best of both worlds get a Formula SCCA car.

Can run it as a full body sports racer. IMSA Lites elgible.

As an open wheel it's one of the fastest growing open wheel groups in SCCA.

Much more reliable engine than any other open wheel car right now. I know of guys getting to 60+ weekends before going to a new engine. Can be found for 35-40K in the US. Lots of support throughout the US.

gums

Here we go again.....

I happen to love Sports Racers and suspect they are somewhat safer than open wheelers, but you'll be buying bodywork for them if not learning to mold fiberglass. Open wheelers are just great to drive, nothing compares. But, with either of the above, I suppose you won't find as many opportunities to drive as we've become accustomed to....