POC Race at Laguna Seca. Anderson wins and then DQ'ed for a misshift? YES- VIDEO!!!!
08-26-2008, 09:13 PM
#46
Rennlist Member
I guess after driving this track so much, that that part of the start finish is not the place to pass, unless you know you got room. It wouldnt have hurt him to wait until the wall went by. Thats actually turn 1. If you look at the direction his car is pointing, most allcars are pointing there, the tendancy is to fade right, even though you are driving fairly straight. There was a guy on the right, but, it is up to the passing car to make a safe pass. If it were me, I would have waited until we got passed that wall. maybe he should have used his horn! 
mk
t
mk
t
08-26-2008, 11:04 PM
#48
Nordschleife Master
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Vacuuming Cal Speedway
Posts: 7,306
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes
on
5 Posts
Ken as I stated previously he wasn't trying to make a pass. He was simply trying to avoid the stalled car directly in front of him. I was only 2 rows back and I couldn't see what was happening until the waters parted and I saw cars bouncing around. I shudder to imagine what might have happened had he rear ended Anderson in the middle of the track with all those cars coming full throtle into a narrowing track....
08-27-2008, 12:48 AM
#49
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
These videos are great. They get us to think about what we would do in these kinds of situations.
I have over 100 race days with SCCA now. We have a lot of situations where drivers have to make these kinds of decisions. It seems to me that most of the competitors seem to always lean toward the safer route, or a route that wont end up in a lost car, as most of use work on them ourselves.
I think its kind of silly to have rules of no passing before start finish or 3 wide through a turn. Thats racing. We have some of the closest racing around in SCCA Its not uncommon for the top 4 cars all to exchange the lead during the race, or the qual times to be within tenths of a second of each other. The best part of the race in my opinion, IS the start.
mk
I have over 100 race days with SCCA now. We have a lot of situations where drivers have to make these kinds of decisions. It seems to me that most of the competitors seem to always lean toward the safer route, or a route that wont end up in a lost car, as most of use work on them ourselves.
I think its kind of silly to have rules of no passing before start finish or 3 wide through a turn. Thats racing. We have some of the closest racing around in SCCA Its not uncommon for the top 4 cars all to exchange the lead during the race, or the qual times to be within tenths of a second of each other. The best part of the race in my opinion, IS the start.
mk
I guess it's time for me to speak up.
The video is my video.
I was asked for a copy and didn't realize it would be passed on to Mark K. and posted on Rennlist for everyone to debate POC's judgement, which is something that I don't think members of POC should do outside our special Club.
The POC Competition Committee does a great and deliberative job in evaluating all available information which usually includes more than one tape--as was true in this case.
My opinion is that our Comp. Comm. does an excellent job in evaluating each situation and I don't think you could have a fairer person than Steve Parker heading the Committee!!
If a member disagrees with the findings of the Comp. Comm. there is an appeal process that can be pursued. One's first reaction when on the receiving end of something like this is almost always denial, followed by acceptance. I know from personal experience!
Now, as Toby Keith says, "let's talk about me"!!
Could I have given Mark Anderson a run for the money on Sunday?
Saturday was really unfortunate because I was looking forward to racing against Mark on Sunday--a great guy --a great competitor and a great car!!
I guess we'll have to wait until we meet again.
The video is my video.
I was asked for a copy and didn't realize it would be passed on to Mark K. and posted on Rennlist for everyone to debate POC's judgement, which is something that I don't think members of POC should do outside our special Club.
The POC Competition Committee does a great and deliberative job in evaluating all available information which usually includes more than one tape--as was true in this case.
My opinion is that our Comp. Comm. does an excellent job in evaluating each situation and I don't think you could have a fairer person than Steve Parker heading the Committee!!
If a member disagrees with the findings of the Comp. Comm. there is an appeal process that can be pursued. One's first reaction when on the receiving end of something like this is almost always denial, followed by acceptance. I know from personal experience!
Now, as Toby Keith says, "let's talk about me"!!
Could I have given Mark Anderson a run for the money on Sunday?
Saturday was really unfortunate because I was looking forward to racing against Mark on Sunday--a great guy --a great competitor and a great car!!
I guess we'll have to wait until we meet again.
08-27-2008, 01:19 AM
#50
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Encinitas, CA "Surf Capital of the World"
Posts: 950
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was there on the hill watching the start and Anderson looked like he literally stopped (mis-shifted) before the start. If you saw it from above Dawson had no were to go after seeing the green. IMO 13/13 is warranted as the root cause is Anderson missing a shift - these are the fastest cars and the twin turbo Dawson's driving does accelerate kind a of quickly. Anderson drove the daylight out of that car but it was an unfortunate circumstance that caused damage at the start and a delay of racing for approximately 10 laps thereafter. It was cool seeing the 928 kicking *** though!
08-27-2008, 01:31 AM
#52
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
When we race with any group, we chose to do so and agree to follow the rules of the group. While no 3-wide means less passing at the start, we believe it means less carnage too. No 3-wide or 13/13 may be silly to some, but they are the rules we choose to race by.
I agree that the start is usually the most intense part of a race and I agree that racing with folk that are within a tenth or two of yourself is the most fun. In PRC's GTL class we appear to be building group where we are within a few tenths of each other and it's making for great fun.
I also think videos are great for after the event analysis. What we sometimes loose sight of is that the opinion we form after 10 or 20 views is not the one we made on the first view or in the fractions of a second we had to make the decision in the race while we are struggling with many other factors concurrently. I also find it hard to blame Mark for the contact or "not leaving enough room" given that he obviously was trying to get the car going at the same time. The decision to go inside to make a pass in retrospect wasn't a good one either. Both appear to have paid for the mistakes.
I agree that the start is usually the most intense part of a race and I agree that racing with folk that are within a tenth or two of yourself is the most fun. In PRC's GTL class we appear to be building group where we are within a few tenths of each other and it's making for great fun.
I also think videos are great for after the event analysis. What we sometimes loose sight of is that the opinion we form after 10 or 20 views is not the one we made on the first view or in the fractions of a second we had to make the decision in the race while we are struggling with many other factors concurrently. I also find it hard to blame Mark for the contact or "not leaving enough room" given that he obviously was trying to get the car going at the same time. The decision to go inside to make a pass in retrospect wasn't a good one either. Both appear to have paid for the mistakes.
08-27-2008, 05:28 PM
#53
Pro
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: SoCal
Posts: 744
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ken as I stated previously he wasn't trying to make a pass. He was simply trying to avoid the stalled car directly in front of him. I was only 2 rows back and I couldn't see what was happening until the waters parted and I saw cars bouncing around. I shudder to imagine what might have happened had he rear ended Anderson in the middle of the track with all those cars coming full throtle into a narrowing track....
I disagree that he wasn't trying to make a pass - he looked full on throttle to me trying to get by Mark. The first part was avoidance for sure although if JP had been a foot forward both of their weekends would have ended right there.
After the "jink" which was radical enough to cause JP to lock up his wheels he kept on it hard to try and squeeze by Mark on the inside. He sure as heck didn't expect Mark to move to the left which he clearly did but still he put himself in tough position.
I might have jinked but likely would not have tried to squeeze by because of the wall.
I was too far back to see clearly what happened in real time but the video seems fairly clear.
08-27-2008, 06:47 PM
#54
I disagree that he wasn't trying to make a pass - he looked full on throttle to me trying to get by Mark. The first part was avoidance for sure although if JP had been a foot forward both of their weekends would have ended right there.
After the "jink" which was radical enough to cause JP to lock up his wheels he kept on it hard to try and squeeze by Mark on the inside. He sure as heck didn't expect Mark to move to the left which he clearly did but still he put himself in tough position.
I might have jinked but likely would not have tried to squeeze by because of the wall.
I was too far back to see clearly what happened in real time but the video seems fairly clear.
After the "jink" which was radical enough to cause JP to lock up his wheels he kept on it hard to try and squeeze by Mark on the inside. He sure as heck didn't expect Mark to move to the left which he clearly did but still he put himself in tough position.
I might have jinked but likely would not have tried to squeeze by because of the wall.
I was too far back to see clearly what happened in real time but the video seems fairly clear.
I agree with all your points, Kevin.
08-27-2008, 09:55 PM
#55
In Your Face, Ace
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
08-28-2008, 11:40 AM
#56
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I think we all agree that it all happened pretty quickly. But, aside from the avoidance, I would never try a pass on the inside of turn 1, as this is result, if you dont KNOW for sure you can make it. Mark didnt do anything violent, he just followed the natural line. You have to think about the general rules of 13/13 classes. you dont own the right of a turn unless you are a long side with you nose up to the other car's door. if you are not there at turn in. (call this turn-in point at start finish for turn 1) all bets are off and you are on your own. Personally, I would have backed out along side to see what he was going to do and then waited for the opening after the wall ended. Dont worry, there has been a lot of wrecks there for that same reason, so that car is not alone.
mk
mk
08-29-2008, 01:55 AM
#58
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
08-29-2008, 02:21 AM
#59
P.S. I ran a 32 yr. old 911 less than 1/2 second off Mark's best lap pace. Oh yeah, it's slightly modified also.
08-29-2008, 07:02 AM
#60
Former Vendor
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,139
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mark A.'s 928 is not a "tube frame all aluminum race car." IIRC, it is a modfied street 928 that has a steel tub, front end, hatch, and roof. The aluminum bits include the front fenders, hood and doors which all 928s have. It has gone through an extensive diet and has a full cage with stiffening tubes extended into the front.
Constantine
Constantine