What does "more rewarding to drive" really mean?
07-19-2008, 05:36 PM
#31
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One of the most "rewarding" cars I got a regular chance in was a pretty well set-up (by mid-80's standards) '70S. Enough grunt to get you hustling down the straights, and perilous enough in cornering to make you take a deep breath every time you came back across the starting line. (Understand this was nearly a decade before club racing came along, and no it wasn't an SCCA car.)
But no way in hell do I wax nostalgic over those things. As I said last night elsewhere, time marches on. I'm not in the camp that everyone wants to do a circle jerk around whatever GT3 Cup is the spec runner of the year. Just no interest here (and yeah, I could afford one if I really, really wanted it). If I want to go lap time X, and want to spend the bucks, it will be in a better sports racer than what I've got now. (No open wheelers in my mid-40's, sorry.)
So where does that leave something like an RS Spyder? In the hands of the pros. You guys who have at least sniffed around purpose builts know how hard and fast it comes at you. You know, stuff like upshifting and hard on it when the GT3RS is braking for the next turn....... I hadn't driven the Radical in 3 months until a couple of weeks ago. First flyer I took on lap 3 or 4, the speed I hit 2 (Thunderhill) I thought I was going to end up over in Willows. Ended up about 5 seconds off pace. Gives you a reality check. Without devoting full-time, not to mention the physical conditioning, I'd say most of us would be quicker in any of the GT2 field.
Since Tosi was bugging me, here's another that is rewarding, but at a more sedate pace considering what it is. All the details were in Excellence 4 or 5 years ago.
But no way in hell do I wax nostalgic over those things. As I said last night elsewhere, time marches on. I'm not in the camp that everyone wants to do a circle jerk around whatever GT3 Cup is the spec runner of the year. Just no interest here (and yeah, I could afford one if I really, really wanted it). If I want to go lap time X, and want to spend the bucks, it will be in a better sports racer than what I've got now. (No open wheelers in my mid-40's, sorry.)
So where does that leave something like an RS Spyder? In the hands of the pros. You guys who have at least sniffed around purpose builts know how hard and fast it comes at you. You know, stuff like upshifting and hard on it when the GT3RS is braking for the next turn....... I hadn't driven the Radical in 3 months until a couple of weeks ago. First flyer I took on lap 3 or 4, the speed I hit 2 (Thunderhill) I thought I was going to end up over in Willows. Ended up about 5 seconds off pace. Gives you a reality check. Without devoting full-time, not to mention the physical conditioning, I'd say most of us would be quicker in any of the GT2 field.
Since Tosi was bugging me, here's another that is rewarding, but at a more sedate pace considering what it is. All the details were in Excellence 4 or 5 years ago.
07-19-2008, 05:42 PM
#32
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I think this phase is used by people to justify why their inferior-in-every-measurable-way car is still good vs a more modern more expensive car. Money aside, we'd all be driving 997 Cups if we could (I would have said 997 RSRs or RS sypders, but that seemed a little far fetched). And if anyone comes on to say they could afford it but choose not to, I don't believe you: there is a big difference between eeking out the cost and having it be financially insignificant.
Well, I for one wouldn't If I could have anything, it would be factory RSR from the 70's. The new cars, as nice as they are do nothing for me. We had a guy in our region that had a 997 RSR, and while nice, I didn't see the point of owning a car that requires a pro to get anywhere beyond 7/10ths of the cars ability.
07-19-2008, 05:44 PM
#33
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Good point Alex. For me, the "what would you rather drive" answer would likely hinge on whether it was a one time drive or an all the time drive for the track. A man really shouldn't be limited to just one track car though...........
07-19-2008, 05:45 PM
#34
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Great question Larry........
To me rewarding means that the car executes the inputs that I give it, whether good or bad, and that it doesn't try to correct my ineptitudes with electronic controls......
To me rewarding means that the car executes the inputs that I give it, whether good or bad, and that it doesn't try to correct my ineptitudes with electronic controls......
07-19-2008, 05:55 PM
#38
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07-19-2008, 06:04 PM
#39
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Well, I for one wouldn't If I could have anything, it would be factory RSR from the 70's. The new cars, as nice as they are do nothing for me. We had a guy in our region that had a 997 RSR, and while nice, I didn't see the point of owning a car that requires a pro to get anywhere beyond 7/10ths of the cars ability.
07-19-2008, 06:25 PM
#40
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For me, that is a simple question that translates into which car is the most fun for you and your driving personality. If you like rumbling V-8s and tossing a car around a track, maybe a Shelby GT-350 is the most rewarding. If it is big modern HP, it might be a late model Porsche Turbo. High speed corners and high g's then a Formula Car or Sports Racer.
07-19-2008, 06:27 PM
#41
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If I were in a race, I'd want the fastest car I could get, but if I'm just out having fun, I want something that turns my crank, and the new cars just don't. If I just wanted to go really really fast, I'd buy a formula car or sports racer instead of wasting money on a 2500+ lb GT car.
07-19-2008, 06:30 PM
#42
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Exactly what does this mean? I feel that I have become very proficient with the 4 main track/race cars that I have owned over the years - a 2L 914, a 3.2 Carrera, a GT3 and the current RSA and I don't feel that any one of them was more rewarding than the other. The GT3 was the easiest to go fast in, the 914 was the scariest, and the RSA is the most work. Does this make the GT3 less rewarding to drive? Yes, I could trundle around at 8/10s and be very precise and quick, but when I got down to it, it took all the talent that I had to crank out those really fast laps and keep it right on the edge. I always felt that it was a fantastic car to drive, and I was pleased that I could drive it that well.
IMHO driving a car right on the limit is difficult and intense, regardless of how sophisticated it is. Is a car that is quirky and abrupt at the limit more of a "driver's car"? Maybe it is driving below the limit that makes the newer cars seem less satisfying? But again, what is the definition of "satisfying"?
Your thoughts please.
IMHO driving a car right on the limit is difficult and intense, regardless of how sophisticated it is. Is a car that is quirky and abrupt at the limit more of a "driver's car"? Maybe it is driving below the limit that makes the newer cars seem less satisfying? But again, what is the definition of "satisfying"?
Your thoughts please.
To me, "most rewarding" for a track car is one in which I learn the most, where I become a better driver more.
07-19-2008, 07:23 PM
#43
Nordschleife Master
I'd still say nope. Do you think that guys race vintage Ferraris cause they can't afford new ones? When I went shopping for my first Porsche, I test drove the Boxster S cause that's what I thought I wanted. After a hour in the car, I realized it wasn't and I went looking for an older 911.
If I were in a race, I'd want the fastest car I could get, but if I'm just out having fun, I want something that turns my crank, and the new cars just don't. If I just wanted to go really really fast, I'd buy a formula car or sports racer instead of wasting money on a 2500+ lb GT car.
If I were in a race, I'd want the fastest car I could get, but if I'm just out having fun, I want something that turns my crank, and the new cars just don't. If I just wanted to go really really fast, I'd buy a formula car or sports racer instead of wasting money on a 2500+ lb GT car.
Maybe my slant is more of a racing one. If just doing DEs, who really cares abut speed...its about having fun and you can do that in a 356. But when you race, you always want something faster.
07-19-2008, 07:53 PM
#44
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I think guys that race vintage Ferraris have limited ability and are scared to drive anything faster
Maybe my slant is more of a racing one. If just doing DEs, who really cares abut speed...its about having fun and you can do that in a 356. But when you race, you always want something faster.
Maybe my slant is more of a racing one. If just doing DEs, who really cares abut speed...its about having fun and you can do that in a 356. But when you race, you always want something faster.
Hell, if you ask Jay Leno what his most satisfying car to drive is, he'll probably name something steam powered.
07-19-2008, 09:33 PM
#45
Nordschleife Master
I think that was the point of the thread though. Obviously, you want to have to most competitive car in your class for racing, but simply the for the joy of driving on the track, what would you want? If you and Jupe simply wanted the fastest cars, why not sell the 964 cups and get Radical SR'3 or something?
Hell, if you ask Jay Leno what his most satisfying car to drive is, he'll probably name something steam powered.
Hell, if you ask Jay Leno what his most satisfying car to drive is, he'll probably name something steam powered.
And I have thought of selling the 964 cup and going IMSA lites instead, but I think that would still be more $s and time. I also think that sports cars are generally safer than open wheel or protoypes (expect for the highest level of protoype). So I'll stick with the 964 cup until I can afford a C3 cup or faster.