Larry Herman

Exactly what does this mean? I feel that I have become very proficient with the 4 main track/race cars that I have owned over the years - a 2L 914, a 3.2 Carrera, a GT3 and the current RSA and I don't feel that any one of them was more rewarding than the other. The GT3 was the easiest to go fast in, the 914 was the scariest, and the RSA is the most work. Does this make the GT3 less rewarding to drive? Yes, I could trundle around at 8/10s and be very precise and quick, but when I got down to it, it took all the talent that I had to crank out those really fast laps and keep it right on the edge. I always felt that it was a fantastic car to drive, and I was pleased that I could drive it that well.

IMHO driving a car right on the limit is difficult and intense, regardless of how sophisticated it is. Is a car that is quirky and abrupt at the limit more of a "driver's car"? Maybe it is driving below the limit that makes the newer cars seem less satisfying? But again, what is the definition of "satisfying"?

Your thoughts please.

BobbyC

One way to look at this...close your eyes, ask yourself if you could drive only 1 of the 4 which would it be ( and don't get into the analysis of this vs that ). On impulse. There's the answer.

DrJupeman

Ooh, a good test, Bobby!

Larry, good question... At the recent PCA Glen race I had the opportunity to re-acquaint myself with my old Boxster S. It had been transformed into an F class racer since I owned it. I remember commenting to the owner, before I drove it, that when the opportunity arose for him to co-drive in my 964 Cup he would never want to go back to the Boxster. Well, one practice session later, I'm not so sure! Although extremely different in feel from the 964 Cup, the Boxster was challenging and rewarding to drive in its own ways. I was reminded that life is not left hollow if you're relegated to driving a Boxster...

That said, applying Bobby's test, I'd choose the 964 Cup over the Boxster. Of the cars in my signature, the ones I enjoyed driving the most on-track were my Turbo 3.6, GT3 Cup, and the 964 Cup. If I had to have just one, it'd be a tough call between the GT3 Cup and the 964 Cup.

38D

I think this phase is used by people to justify why their inferior-in-every-measurable-way car is still good vs a more modern more expensive car. Money aside, we'd all be driving 997 Cups if we could (I would have said 997 RSRs or RS sypders, but that seemed a little far fetched). And if anyone comes on to say they could afford it but choose not to, I don't believe you: there is a big difference between eeking out the cost and having it be financially insignificant.

Larry Herman

I don't think that really answers the question. In your test, I'd pick my GT3 because of the brakes, feedback from the steering, and the wonderful sounds and thrust of that motor. Does that make it more rewarding to drive though?

My 914 was an absolute bitch at the limit. It was able to abruptly vacillate between understeer and oversteer mid-corner; it was a handful. Would mastering a car like that be more satisfying? If that is true, then why is everyone trying to make their cars faster, with more benign handling?

Bull

"More rewarding to drive" means it is a car that you sell for more than you have invested in it!

Seriously, I think that there is no one meaning that fits all, and it will vary by individual.

BrianKeithSmith

If I'm in a car, driving on a track, I'm rewarded.

pedsurg

Colin: Do you really think EVERYONE wants a sequential tranny ??

Jack

Sean F

For me the two variables in the equation are 1) what you have to put in (driving) 2) what you get out. I switched from a 997 to an SC and although I never got close to the limits of the 997 I have come close to the limits of the SC. The fact that I find it hard to reach the limits of the SC and that I'm working my butt off in the car makes results (e.g., podiums, lap times) seem more rewarding. I'm guessing that I wouldn't have to work so hard driving a modern car to achieve similar results given the modern technology, power assisted brakes and steering, adjustable suspension, etc. I could be wrong, but just don't know because I haven't been there with a modern car.

Larry Herman

Physically you don't have to work quite as hard driving the newer cars, and because of their better suspensions, average drivers can be closer to the faster drivers time-wise, but I don't see where that makes driving a newer car less rewarding.

38D

Cost aside, yes everyone wants the sequential. Don't get me wrong, I love my car. It is the perfect compromise of price/performance in my view. All of us balance the cost/convenience/ability equation with our current rides. But let's not lie to ourselves and think we don't want a better car. It really does just come down to cost and a bit of ability, as convenience would be out the window if you had $1B in the bank and could chopper in for the race to meet the pro team!

pedsurg

chopper YES !!

sequential: No thanks

Jack

NJcroc

I think Bobby has a valid point but the truth is rewarding is the feeling you get when you are driving as well as the long ride home. The most critical point of this equation is what else is on the track with you, when you are driving. you will find that in the upper run groups guys have cars that are capable of similar speeds as there friends. Colin and charlie would never be driving GTC1 cars by themselves if that class wasnt so compoetative now. What fun or reward would be going fast by yourself. Speed is relative, rewarding is fighting for feet not yards, this doesnt matter if the car in front is capable of faster speeds or not. I would never feel proud of passing a cup car in my car i know it just isnt being driven well that day, (unless he mouthed off the night before over a beer .

Colin, I am living proof that your point can be countered easily. I could be driving any new car from the showroom and picked mine

MTosi

Ditto

I love my standards, I wish they would ban sequentials.....

A standard is another skill that gives a better driver the advantage (no matter how small), and I need all the help I can get not to mention IMO they are more fun to drive.



btw leave it to Larry to actually start a very relevent intelligent well thought out thread, unlike others (looks in mirror)

M758

rewarding means the level speed/perfomance out is greater than the effort put in. Taking the car pushing it hard and having it respond to you inputs is fun.

Not rewarding is when you push hard and the car still does not work well. You can't get it to turn and stuggle all over the track. Or not rewarding is I car that is too easy to drive fast and as such you don't drive it hard. You just point and go. Boring. Not rewarding is car you can't drive to the way you want because it is too fast/scary or too expensive to risk.