First DE with 997 GT3 - Watkins Glen
06-25-2008, 10:51 PM
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First DE with 997 GT3 - Watkins Glen
Finally time for a recap...
Picked up the 07 GT3 in VA on Thursday, drove home Friday, prepared Saturday and left for The Glen on Sunday. Monday was about 70 degrees in the AM with variable clouds. We all expected rain, but we didn't get any. Couldn't swap to Pagid Yellow 29s because the rears were the wrong ones, so I left the OEM wheels on with new PS2s (well, 900 miles on them) figuring they'd be better in the rain than the PSCups.
First session was pretty quick right out of the blocks because I'm already familiar with the 997S. Just better suspension, brakes, engine, transmission, clutch / flywheel, shifter, and the LSD really came into play and changed how I attack certain turns - took me a while to figure out why I was more comfortable / quicker in these turns and attribute it to being able to put down more power due to the LSD (correct assumption - those that are more mechanically / technically savvy?). I wasn't pushing any systems yet - just getting used to things and experimenting.
Second session was great - started to push the brakes a little and use more throttle. Used up to 8k - figured that would be enough. Heel / Toe felt natural - very similar to the S and the pedals line up nicely. Starting to figure out the gearing / revs, which is very different than the S. I'd have to use 3rd, 4th, and 5th quite a bit with the S, where with the GT3, 3rd and 4th mostly.
Third session I was now pushing relatively hard as I was comfortable. Late in the session I was having a great time with a 993TT race car, playing a little cat and mouse. For a lap I was pushing and on the back straight saw 154 indicated before we both threw out the anchors. His right rear locked and white smoke poured out as he started to spin. 180, 360, 540, 720. His nose just about came to rest pointing right at me as I eased off the brakes to get more steering and gingerly dodged left and then harder right into the Bus Stop. I could have bailed and used the bypass, but there was no reason to as the GT3 was so confident as though wired to my brain. Boy do I wish I had my camera in... I spoke with the owner later and he and his car were fine.
Fourth session brought everything together and by now I was pushing confidently through the esses at or near Flat throughout. I was surprised at how good the suspension was - that or I just don't know any better, but it held on and didn't let me down anywhere. No movement front or rear to indicate the suspension was unsettled, even where the pavement isn't perfect (ie: At the top of the Esses, where my 997S suspension gave up and pushed me 20 degrees left - not a good place to give out, but an easy correct brought it back).
Day 2 was sunny and warm with blue sky and puffy white clouds. Put on the PSCups on the Volks. Instantly, I could feel the increase in response from the significantly lighter wheels - quicker to accelerate and brake. Took it easy first session to gauge the differences between the tires. As reported elsewhere, there's not much difference between the 19" Porsche PSCup and the PS2 - it's not a "real" Cup. But, it felt like a little more grip overall, so I could carry a little more speed through the turns and lay down a little more power confidently. Second session wasn't very dramatic - just more "learning". Now maxing out at 8k with quite a bit of distance to the braking zone at the Bus Stop - note to self, will use 5th here at next DE, just not worth it now as I'm still acclimating to the new car. As braking went from 500 to 400 to 300 with hugely confident trail braking into the Bus Stop (much more confident feeling than the S was) and top speed went from 145 to 150 to 153 indicated at 8k - I realized that I could probably shift into 5th for 3-4 seconds instead of just hold in 4th. Figure that with Yellows and more seat time this whole T1 to Bus Stop sequence will feel great and be very fast.
Third session was again very interesting. I was really in a groove and loving every moment. Carried more than ever through T11 and onto the front straight, went easier on the brakes as they were pretty cooked, but carried more speed through T1 than usual and was right on full throttle, shifted to 4th and flat still coming through T2 and just as I straightened slightly into the Esses, the rear end broke loose hard and I could tell it was fluid (had that feeling many times before). At full torque and about 100 MPH, I didn't even think, I just reacted with micro steering inputs. Left 20 degrees, back to neutral, right 10, and finally neutral through the problem. Then the disabled 914 was revealed on the right next to the Armco 3/4 the way up the Esses. That got the attention of the right people because while I had no warning, I was flashing lights to indicate to the flaggers there was an issue and right away Black came out. All I thought about was warning others, not about what I just made it through without as much as a hiccup - I just trucked on and as I entered the pits I had a silly grin on my face as I realized just how great this car is - that it did exactly what was needed to work through what could have been a very serious situation. I also thought how amazingly "Wired" the GT3 is, how it's an extension of the mind more so than any other car I've owned and / or tracked. I realized that while the stock alignment is pretty good, that with -2 to -2.5 up front, the understeer will be dramatically reduced and that with Pagid Yellow 29s, the brakes will just be amazing. Rotors are still in fairly good shape - plenty of life left despite spiders developing.
I had a great time with CVR once again and so many people starting with my family that was there to enjoy the event with me, "Great One" Rick (my son's instructor), the "incredibly fun and hard working" Susan and David, Jonathan who managed to look like he was calm and enjoying himself while running the show, always positive Charles who got back in the saddle, Uber-driver Patrick and his "new to DE and WGI" buddy Sacha, Mark and his great Cayman S, "new to DE" Paul loving DE so much he came all the way from Canada, ever helpful "Doctor" Dan who kept us all running, Friendly Ed and his great cheering section (I'll still pretend she was cheering for me), TJ and his killer Boxster - cat and mouse was so much fun, Bo and family - always great to visit, Mario who transported my wheels from Glenora to the track - hope your car gets better soon, funny Tony who "never wins anything" but won again at the raffle, and everyone else I forgot to mention.
Attached photo is larger / more resolution of my new avatar. T11 heading to TO for the front straight. Flat in 3rd and notice the compression on the rear
Picked up the 07 GT3 in VA on Thursday, drove home Friday, prepared Saturday and left for The Glen on Sunday. Monday was about 70 degrees in the AM with variable clouds. We all expected rain, but we didn't get any. Couldn't swap to Pagid Yellow 29s because the rears were the wrong ones, so I left the OEM wheels on with new PS2s (well, 900 miles on them) figuring they'd be better in the rain than the PSCups.
First session was pretty quick right out of the blocks because I'm already familiar with the 997S. Just better suspension, brakes, engine, transmission, clutch / flywheel, shifter, and the LSD really came into play and changed how I attack certain turns - took me a while to figure out why I was more comfortable / quicker in these turns and attribute it to being able to put down more power due to the LSD (correct assumption - those that are more mechanically / technically savvy?). I wasn't pushing any systems yet - just getting used to things and experimenting.
Second session was great - started to push the brakes a little and use more throttle. Used up to 8k - figured that would be enough. Heel / Toe felt natural - very similar to the S and the pedals line up nicely. Starting to figure out the gearing / revs, which is very different than the S. I'd have to use 3rd, 4th, and 5th quite a bit with the S, where with the GT3, 3rd and 4th mostly.
Third session I was now pushing relatively hard as I was comfortable. Late in the session I was having a great time with a 993TT race car, playing a little cat and mouse. For a lap I was pushing and on the back straight saw 154 indicated before we both threw out the anchors. His right rear locked and white smoke poured out as he started to spin. 180, 360, 540, 720. His nose just about came to rest pointing right at me as I eased off the brakes to get more steering and gingerly dodged left and then harder right into the Bus Stop. I could have bailed and used the bypass, but there was no reason to as the GT3 was so confident as though wired to my brain. Boy do I wish I had my camera in... I spoke with the owner later and he and his car were fine.
Fourth session brought everything together and by now I was pushing confidently through the esses at or near Flat throughout. I was surprised at how good the suspension was - that or I just don't know any better, but it held on and didn't let me down anywhere. No movement front or rear to indicate the suspension was unsettled, even where the pavement isn't perfect (ie: At the top of the Esses, where my 997S suspension gave up and pushed me 20 degrees left - not a good place to give out, but an easy correct brought it back).
Day 2 was sunny and warm with blue sky and puffy white clouds. Put on the PSCups on the Volks. Instantly, I could feel the increase in response from the significantly lighter wheels - quicker to accelerate and brake. Took it easy first session to gauge the differences between the tires. As reported elsewhere, there's not much difference between the 19" Porsche PSCup and the PS2 - it's not a "real" Cup. But, it felt like a little more grip overall, so I could carry a little more speed through the turns and lay down a little more power confidently. Second session wasn't very dramatic - just more "learning". Now maxing out at 8k with quite a bit of distance to the braking zone at the Bus Stop - note to self, will use 5th here at next DE, just not worth it now as I'm still acclimating to the new car. As braking went from 500 to 400 to 300 with hugely confident trail braking into the Bus Stop (much more confident feeling than the S was) and top speed went from 145 to 150 to 153 indicated at 8k - I realized that I could probably shift into 5th for 3-4 seconds instead of just hold in 4th. Figure that with Yellows and more seat time this whole T1 to Bus Stop sequence will feel great and be very fast.
Third session was again very interesting. I was really in a groove and loving every moment. Carried more than ever through T11 and onto the front straight, went easier on the brakes as they were pretty cooked, but carried more speed through T1 than usual and was right on full throttle, shifted to 4th and flat still coming through T2 and just as I straightened slightly into the Esses, the rear end broke loose hard and I could tell it was fluid (had that feeling many times before). At full torque and about 100 MPH, I didn't even think, I just reacted with micro steering inputs. Left 20 degrees, back to neutral, right 10, and finally neutral through the problem. Then the disabled 914 was revealed on the right next to the Armco 3/4 the way up the Esses. That got the attention of the right people because while I had no warning, I was flashing lights to indicate to the flaggers there was an issue and right away Black came out. All I thought about was warning others, not about what I just made it through without as much as a hiccup - I just trucked on and as I entered the pits I had a silly grin on my face as I realized just how great this car is - that it did exactly what was needed to work through what could have been a very serious situation. I also thought how amazingly "Wired" the GT3 is, how it's an extension of the mind more so than any other car I've owned and / or tracked. I realized that while the stock alignment is pretty good, that with -2 to -2.5 up front, the understeer will be dramatically reduced and that with Pagid Yellow 29s, the brakes will just be amazing. Rotors are still in fairly good shape - plenty of life left despite spiders developing.
I had a great time with CVR once again and so many people starting with my family that was there to enjoy the event with me, "Great One" Rick (my son's instructor), the "incredibly fun and hard working" Susan and David, Jonathan who managed to look like he was calm and enjoying himself while running the show, always positive Charles who got back in the saddle, Uber-driver Patrick and his "new to DE and WGI" buddy Sacha, Mark and his great Cayman S, "new to DE" Paul loving DE so much he came all the way from Canada, ever helpful "Doctor" Dan who kept us all running, Friendly Ed and his great cheering section (I'll still pretend she was cheering for me), TJ and his killer Boxster - cat and mouse was so much fun, Bo and family - always great to visit, Mario who transported my wheels from Glenora to the track - hope your car gets better soon, funny Tony who "never wins anything" but won again at the raffle, and everyone else I forgot to mention.
Attached photo is larger / more resolution of my new avatar. T11 heading to TO for the front straight. Flat in 3rd and notice the compression on the rear
06-25-2008, 11:11 PM
#3
Nordschleife Master
I have had my 996GT3 for 4 years and have 56,900 miles. I still can not wait to start the car every chance I get and still look back at it when walking away. Cool cars are they not. Just wait until you put in the LWFW.... and you will :-)
06-25-2008, 11:17 PM
#5
The Penguin King
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I don't know why you guys do this... LOL
Beautiful car Ron, & great write-up. LOVE the sound of the GT3. Congrats.
Beautiful car Ron, & great write-up. LOVE the sound of the GT3. Congrats.
06-25-2008, 11:43 PM
#6
Still plays with cars.
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So Ron, to refer to a previous thread, how do you compare the 997S and the GT3 NOW?
Best,
Best,
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06-26-2008, 07:46 AM
#8
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Well Bob, I was referring to the 996GT3 and the 997S, older platform vs. newer. I'll still maintain there's a gradation here, 997S relatively close to 996GT3 to 997GT3. Knowing both 997S and GT3 now, I'll say there's a significant difference and I have to believe the 996GT3 falls in the middle somewhere. I guess to settle this once and for all, somebody needs to donate the use of a 996GT3 for a day 
06-26-2008, 08:34 AM
#10
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Forgot to mention some efficiency information... 300 miles there averaged 26.4 MPG, 300 miles home averaged 28.1 MPG, 410 track miles and to/from the track averaged 10 MPG. I was shocked - the GT3 burned less fuel all around than the 997S did while driving the same speed to/from but faster on track. I always found better economy on the way home and never really knew why. Engine operating more efficiently after being pushed, more down-hill going from WGI to CT vs. the other way around, combination, etc.?
06-26-2008, 11:32 AM
#13
Rennlist Member
from my relatively limited experience in both cars (just got a 996 3) and have a couple friends with 7 3s...the 996, while less capable in outright time ability is still the more raw of the two. However, this could be viewed as a great or awful thing depending on the driver. The 997 seems to exhibit a larger degree of grip and feels more settled than that of the 996. This means that the operator of the 997 gt3 will most likely see "holy ****" speed faster than the 996 operator, but the 996 guy may be having a bit more fun getting there. That said...though I love the raw feel of the 6 3, I would LOVE to run a 997...I think the new gt3s are some of the best cars available...PERIOD...
06-26-2008, 11:34 AM
#14
Race Director
Ron, what seats do you have in your GT3?
