Wow- well let me throw this out there-
I actually started autocrossing in an MG Midget- 55hp on a great day, and it was terrific fun. I modified it as I went and eventually had a race-gas only 100+hp 1000lb land missile on slicks that I can very confidentaly say that I could literally drive to the limit without much fear. I grew as the car grew and I knew every single thing about that car.
As I moved to higher and higher output cars I found that some of them were absolutely comfortable right to the edge, while others were evil bastards that had to be whipped into submission and I just knew would turn on me at any moment. Along the way I managed to drive a few different Formula cars as well as Gt and Touring cars and many different sorts of Porsche. The thing that stands out along the way is the very large difference is capability between types and how one must drive to get "the best" from them. My MG Midget was so easy to drive at the limit that practically anyone was a Pro after 10 minutes in the car. A 996 GT3RS Cup car however, is a car that must be driven aggressively and with purpose, rewarding smooth aggressive drivers and punishing the timid. It is actually much much more dangerous to drive most of these cars at much less than thier limits. An extreme example of this was a few(many) years ago at VIR I watched a customer in a 935K3 get passed by a 914-6. The car certianly has the power, brakes, and tire to get around the track at phenominal speed, but the driver lacked the ability to drive the car where it "worked".
While I suspect that most people who bring out thier new 997tt, Cup car, or GT3 to a DE are more likely to show up with a stock or near stock car and go from there, learning as best they can from thier more experienced instructors, there will always be the guy who got it into his head he needed that Ruf conversion or some other monster power adder. Absolutely nothing wrong with that! The fact is that these are the guys who will benefit the most from instruction. These are the guys who REALLY want to learn and enjoy thier toy. If they are presented with enthusiastic instruction and encouragement then they will safely enjoy thier toy. There is no need for them to leave thier Heffner Viper in the garage and go buy a miata to "learn to drive", because in most cases these guys know EXACTLY what they have and what they have spent. Given half a chance, they will 100% value any and all instruction, which is exactly why the DE program exists. However, if made to feel like they are "rich guys" playing race car driver I can assure you thier ego will get in the way and little to nothing will be learned.

The entire low hp vs high hp learning curve is largely a point of view sort of thing, I see nothing wrong in either case.

 

Finally, the SCCA guys but in. And as expected, I think we're in agreement, srf.
My experience in years of DE's was that they teach certain disciplines well, and other habits not well.
Like, how NOT to pass. Part of the safe environment is to control the passing. Understood. Well, then you get to a race environment, and you have to unlearn that stuff, and learn to defend a bit and learn to stick your nose in safely. No more ideal line and wait your turn.
Not knocking the DE concept, just reiterating that if you want to learn to race, it's not the ideal platform. That's been my point from the outset.

 

5 plus pages.. good work man.

GARY: I'm good man, been watchin you guys from pits this year. I got Lyme Disease last Sept that has caused issues w one of my eyes.. Was forced to let the cars go, Killing me to not race this year. Eye is improving and I plan on being back next year (In a lower hp car, lol), may try out a boxster s.. Good luck to you this season..

 

If I only was able to keep momentum like this thread.......................

 

hell i figure i will have to catch them on the straights somehow! ... some of us not great drivers need hp to compensate!!!!! lmao.... just thought i would add some humor to the thread

 

ya, because its not like you can drive a cup car hard or anything...lol...


And damn..Im probably at like 10 percent of my stupid na car...

 

I'm going to blow by all the babble about momentum car versus high HP car, better approach, blah, blah, to address this one since I agree with your view. PCA DE is a good environment to begin and learn track driving skills but has the limitation you describe above.
However, there are plenty of organizations out here in CA that run open passing, as well as point-by anywhere run groups as part of their DE. You can always run in a limited, point-by group if you don't feel comfortable with passing in corners. These types of DE's are a great way to get a taste for a racing situation (I said "taste "now) as you have the opportunity to pass off-line in a corner. Before stepping in here tho a driver should certainly have established the requisite advanced DE skills - knowlege of the line( (DE and race), hitting apexes, consistency, smoothness, track awareness, good car control, etc. Also, you need to be careful because you're never sure of the skill level of others in the group and some are in a bit over there head. So there is definitely added risk.
None the less, just ran one this last weekend and found it extremely useful and challenging.

 

haha

 

HAHA! All ya gotta do is push a button once in awhile and these guys get all bent up, it's easy! Gotta love 'em for it.....

 

 

Fixed this for ya Frank.

 

Not! got it a few months ago stripped of livery, just took it out for my maiden run last week... all I can say is wow I only got 2 sessions due to track conditions but I loved it. Here's a picture of my husband's first outing last month at Summit....

Disclaimer: I started out autocrossing, then bought a 944 Turbo for the track, which I have driven in the advanced/instructor group for 5+ years, YMMV... this was my path, and it worked for my purposes. I think that if you have the desire to be a good drover you will find a way to it regardless of what you're in

 

haha!

 

Thanks, Larry, I didn't even have to ask!

And Beth, yes you found a way; Autocross. Perfect start.

 

Can someone tell my why the hell Frank Celenza is god of the track? Who are you anyways? I think it's awesome that you were the fastest person in your Bertil Roos school...