Money don't buy talent.

My Dad did the same thing, went out and bought a Cup Car. He sold it soon after he got it and bought a 993 RS. He became very fast in that and is in the market for a Cup Car now after gaining experience.

 

I've always semi thought it should be a requirement of anyone purchasing a high horsepower vehicle to take it to a track day for some proper instruction. I can't count the number of times I've read a story about a Ferarri or Porsche owner who has put it into a lamppost because their foot got a little heavy one night, and come to find out they were hauling at 100mph+ and owned the car for less than a week.

I'd rather see them put on a real track, with a real instructor, so that they can learn to respect the power that's underneath them, then to want to give things a go some night on a highway.

Unfortunately, I see the problem as being more of a mix of horsepower and ego, rather than just "nice car at the track". It sounds like a lot of people on here were humble enough to admit that the car was above them, and brought themselves down a few notches so that they could learn.

 

That is exactly what happened with me. I don't think there is much awareness for most people that DE's even exist until one gets a Porsche, then (say) joins PCA and hears about it there. In my case, I learned about DE's after I bought my first Porsche and got to chatting with a local independent who specialized in Porsches (and races) -- by asking the old "where can I go drive my car fast without getting a ticket".

After doing several DE's I finally came to the conclusion that I'd rather get in a lower HP (personal preference, not going to dump on someone who chooses differently) but very well set-up race car. I probably would have gone straight to it from the beginning if I knew then what I know now. But hey, you don't know what you don't know.

 

Is your dad Ozzie? I remember a TV show about him....

 

I agree! I commend those with newer Porsches, Vettes, Ferrari's, BMW's or just anyone in general that shows up at the track wanting to learn more about driving.

As for me...I am one of the guys Gumms is talking about, however I never knew I could go take my car and drive it a Sebring until my salesman told me about it back in July of 2006! If I had known about this on my previous Porsches and Vettes I would have been into this hobby a long time ago. But when my salesman told me about it and I surfed the Internet and found this forum a whole new world and friends has opened up to me.

So regardless of what car I drive and if that car has stability management or not I am learning how to drive better and better at each event. I am now extremely grateful to be able to help others drive better and get into this awesome hobby.

 

I've been lucky to get a lot of good advice, and as a nOOb who's only been driving on track regularly since october, I've had some instructor/ passengers that were a bit sketched out about riding in my relatively high HP cars.

I started off in my 993 TT (580hp), because straight up that's the car I had. If I would have had a 964, F360 or a VW golf, I would have driven those, but I started off with a turbo. Once I had enough money that crashing it wouldn't bother me, off I went to the track. Getting to a point where you realize that the track might destroy your car, and deciding to do it anyway takes a big wallet, and some people have bigger wallets than others (and therefore risk more expensive cars).

I truly realized in the first lapping session- when I let by some psycho dude in a miata turbo- that I'd have to push and challenge myself technically in order to be a competent driver, and the $$$/HP thing didn't really factor in my mind. In the 993, I got to the point where I needed to go with grippier tires to contain the car's power, and eventually was ok. I learned a lot of valuable skills from pushing the car over it's grip threshold, and spinning off into the weeds, dust, etc. Our local track is relatively consequence free, luckily enough.

When I got my 997GT3, I literally was not intimidated by the power at all, plus it has so much mechanical grip I felt really safe driving it on the track. I got some instruction in that car and upon returning to the 993TT, made huge leaps. Switched into a 997RS, and found even more grip and even higher performance limits but still felt safe.

I feel safe-mostly because I've made the mistakes and know how incidents occur. I'm always calm but the look on some of the PCA DE instructors faces was pretty priceless while they strapped in. Mr. Amond's father rode with me and I could tell he was curious about how reckless I'd be- which is only fair- a lot of guys drive recklessly and endanger themselves, their instructors, etc.

"so how long have you been driving on track?"

"a few months"

"oh. let me check the straps..."

After about 2 laps I could tell he was glad I had some car control, and his worries went away.


it's great to get as many people as possible on the track in their cars- I think it makes people safer drivers on the road. Knowing how many of you guys on here are actually instructors is really encouraging- although I've got no clue how you approach total wackos behind the wheel. your patience is a virtue I'll probably never share!

 

Wow, I must have missed the boat.... I started dong DEs n early 2000 in a stock 1999 996, then moved to a 996 turbo, then a 996 cup car to race.

Maybe I could have learned to be a better driver and racer following your formular above.

Or maybe it's just the car I happened to have at the time, and I could just as easily afford to ball it up as other could afford an older race car?

Why do these comments most often come from someone that is currently driving a "momentum" (old/slow) car.

ALL RACE CARS ARE MOMENTUM CARS. Some just dont accelerate as hard.

 

+1. Couldn't agree with you more.

It's all about respecting one's ability as well as equipment, and building experience based on that combo. Some do just fine in big turbos as their first track cars, and others can't keep 4 wheels on track in a Neon. On the same note, I've seen just as many people make a$$es of themselves in both big-buck high HP cars as in less expensive "learner" (term used loosely) cars. Fix the driver's attitude, and go from there.

Regards,

Garen

 

Why does this seem to bother you? Perhaps a GT3 - example of an "expensive" car - is a cheap car to the guy driving it. Perhaps the GT3 is to them what a 944 is to you? Time is limited and if the person wants to spend their time in a GT3 or similar, I'm happy for them. If they understand the risk and can afford it, great!

I'm not inferring that you think there are more wrecks from the expensive cars, so as long as safety isn't being compromised, the single most important aspect to DEs is.... FUN! If the guy/gal in their GT3 is having fun, lay off.

Is learning in an expensive car the best way? Probably not, but that didn't seem to be your point.

 

Cause they are so far down the time sheets, they need a way to feel good


So true!

 

Um, let me see, maybe because I've done both and learned a thing or two along the way? And whoever suggested an "old" car, anyway? Plenty of great racing in very current and high tech small disp. cars everywhere. Gee, I wonder why so many successful drivers came from karting? They're sure not coming from PCA DE, last I checked.

 

 

Absol-frikkin-lutely TRUE. And that's how I teach & instruct as well.



Yes it can. Just ask Tracy Krohn.

 

Interesting theme threaded through here...

One of the things I have come to appreciate at track events - but didn't expect going into it - is that no one cares about the numbers on your 1040 - they would neither earn you any respect, nor be held against you. What a welcome reprieve from the way we and our cars are judged the rest of the time.

Exactly. There's always someone with more money than you, or more money earlier in life. I'd like to think that I don't look at C.J.'s RS and think "rich guy in a car beyond his skills", and I'm pretty sure he doesn't look at lesser cars and think "poor guy, he'd be really fast in a newer car". (Usually, I'm thinking "crap, wasn't he behind me just a few laps ago???")

For me, the whole DE experience would lose one of its best features if someone questioned my attendance, judgement, skills, or ability to improve on the basis of my car's resale value.

 

So true.

-Garen