Video of my wreck at the Glen race
06-03-2008, 10:11 AM
#121
Rennlist Member
Thanks for the post Steve and the additional information. Looking forward to getting out there with you again as soon as possible. Sorry about your car.
One thing about the 360 car that I think is really wrong, regardless of how it all happened, is that he never came in. The stewards had to black flag him after I showed them my video. That is just plain wrong.
One thing about the 360 car that I think is really wrong, regardless of how it all happened, is that he never came in. The stewards had to black flag him after I showed them my video. That is just plain wrong.
06-03-2008, 10:33 AM
#122
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Thanks for the post Steve and the additional information. Looking forward to getting out there with you again as soon as possible. Sorry about your car.
One thing about the 360 car that I think is really wrong, regardless of how it all happened, is that he never came in. The stewards had to black flag him after I showed them my video. That is just plain wrong.
One thing about the 360 car that I think is really wrong, regardless of how it all happened, is that he never came in. The stewards had to black flag him after I showed them my video. That is just plain wrong.
That being said I would like to take this opportunity to say Hi to John. He was an instructor of mine back in my DE days and was very good. I still remember his words about wide tires on a 944 and how they can slow you down.
BTW your left headlight ring ended up in my passenger seat. I think it passed right through my door.
Steve
06-03-2008, 01:47 PM
#124
Instructor
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This is Jess Wurmbrand, the driver of the yellow 101 car.
I just returned home and was made aware of this post. I have watched Sean's video many times and read through the comments up to this point.
First and foremost, I take full responsibility for drifting into Bill, the blue 113 car. I didn't know he had gotten his left front tire even with my right rear, I was trying to get back to the line I had been running all weekend and simply didn't gauge his speed correctly. I moved over, we made contact and I spun into the armco. Let me say it again: I was at fault in starting this ugly chain reaction and certainly in leaving Steve with very few choices. My mistake also ended the race for Bill and and certainly contributed directly to the obviously big hit to Sean's car. My car is heavily damaged also and I won't know if it's fixable until I see it later in the week. I was given the thirteen which I took without argument. Words are not enough to express my regret for this lapse judgement or situational awareness.
I want to address a few points that have been brought up in this thread. I don't intend to come across as defensive but to some degree I feel like I'm being vilified here so bear with me.
I am an experienced racer. This was my thirty eighth PCA race weekend since 2001 and this was my first major incident of any kind where I was at fault. I hope the guys on this side of the country would attest my contention that I am an aware, safe, and competent driver who understands what it means to coexist on a race track. I understand that I was "playing on your field" and am unknown to most of you so perhaps I should have made a larger effort to stay under the radar. However, I, like the rest of guys at the front are racers and I came to New York to finish as close to the front as I could.
As was mentioned, my car does not have a passenger side exterior mirror. It didn't come with one from the factory and I have never put one on. I do have a large convex mirror inside the car that affords me what I think is a better view than a factory right side mirror would. I think the lack of a mirror is not an issue in this incident.
Someone mentioned that they had seen problems with me or my car during the weekend. Other than a broken front strut on Friday and of course my incident I'm not sure what he is referring to. Let me throw this out there. If, in the future, anyone has any issue whatsoever with me, my driving, my car, anything, please please approach me and we will discuss it. If you're not comfortable with a one on one conversation, go to the steward and have them talk to me. They always encourage that. I love PCA club racing mostly for the good friends I've made doing it. It pains me to think that some action on my part is detracting from the enjoyment of any fellow competitor at a race weekend.
It was implied that I was driving too aggressively for the start of a ninety minute race. In my experience, the PCA enduros are essentially long sprint races. The one's I've won in the past have had lap times very consistent with the lap times of the sprint races. There is very little strategy other than to drive as fast as you can for an hour and a half since all of our pit stops the same length. I don't feel that my driving looks overly aggressive during the (albeit short) video that has been posted.
Finally, regarding apologies at the track. I know I made a blanket apology to Steve and Sean as they were leaving the tower. I also told Steve, in impound, that if I was at fault, I was very sorry. I think I told Sean in the tower I was sorry individually, too. Steve was rightfully upset with me at the time so I didn't think I should push the issue. So Steve, let me say again, clearly that I am unconditionally sorry for starting this wreck. Sean, too, if I wasn't clear enough in my apology, I'm sorry for the damage to your car.
Respectfully,
Jess Wurmbrand
(formerly) yellow 101
I just returned home and was made aware of this post. I have watched Sean's video many times and read through the comments up to this point.
First and foremost, I take full responsibility for drifting into Bill, the blue 113 car. I didn't know he had gotten his left front tire even with my right rear, I was trying to get back to the line I had been running all weekend and simply didn't gauge his speed correctly. I moved over, we made contact and I spun into the armco. Let me say it again: I was at fault in starting this ugly chain reaction and certainly in leaving Steve with very few choices. My mistake also ended the race for Bill and and certainly contributed directly to the obviously big hit to Sean's car. My car is heavily damaged also and I won't know if it's fixable until I see it later in the week. I was given the thirteen which I took without argument. Words are not enough to express my regret for this lapse judgement or situational awareness.
I want to address a few points that have been brought up in this thread. I don't intend to come across as defensive but to some degree I feel like I'm being vilified here so bear with me.
I am an experienced racer. This was my thirty eighth PCA race weekend since 2001 and this was my first major incident of any kind where I was at fault. I hope the guys on this side of the country would attest my contention that I am an aware, safe, and competent driver who understands what it means to coexist on a race track. I understand that I was "playing on your field" and am unknown to most of you so perhaps I should have made a larger effort to stay under the radar. However, I, like the rest of guys at the front are racers and I came to New York to finish as close to the front as I could.
As was mentioned, my car does not have a passenger side exterior mirror. It didn't come with one from the factory and I have never put one on. I do have a large convex mirror inside the car that affords me what I think is a better view than a factory right side mirror would. I think the lack of a mirror is not an issue in this incident.
Someone mentioned that they had seen problems with me or my car during the weekend. Other than a broken front strut on Friday and of course my incident I'm not sure what he is referring to. Let me throw this out there. If, in the future, anyone has any issue whatsoever with me, my driving, my car, anything, please please approach me and we will discuss it. If you're not comfortable with a one on one conversation, go to the steward and have them talk to me. They always encourage that. I love PCA club racing mostly for the good friends I've made doing it. It pains me to think that some action on my part is detracting from the enjoyment of any fellow competitor at a race weekend.
It was implied that I was driving too aggressively for the start of a ninety minute race. In my experience, the PCA enduros are essentially long sprint races. The one's I've won in the past have had lap times very consistent with the lap times of the sprint races. There is very little strategy other than to drive as fast as you can for an hour and a half since all of our pit stops the same length. I don't feel that my driving looks overly aggressive during the (albeit short) video that has been posted.
Finally, regarding apologies at the track. I know I made a blanket apology to Steve and Sean as they were leaving the tower. I also told Steve, in impound, that if I was at fault, I was very sorry. I think I told Sean in the tower I was sorry individually, too. Steve was rightfully upset with me at the time so I didn't think I should push the issue. So Steve, let me say again, clearly that I am unconditionally sorry for starting this wreck. Sean, too, if I wasn't clear enough in my apology, I'm sorry for the damage to your car.
Respectfully,
Jess Wurmbrand
(formerly) yellow 101
06-03-2008, 02:44 PM
#127
Track Day
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I am going to post one last time on this subject. Its done and I have to concentrate on getting the new car started for VIR.
Jess, I think the problem everyone had with you was that you made a very strange move and as we all know it ended rather badly for you and created the opportunity for Sean and I to get whacked. The pace was not the problem had you tracked out left (or center) and run down to the Bus Stop then this thread may have been about the awesome drive that you put in for your first time on the track. Instead you needlessly chose not to trackout and to come all the way back to the right just after the most dangerous area of the Glen. If Will had not been there you would have run down to the Bus Stop along the right edge of the track. That is why you are being talked about in a somewhat unpleasant way, it just didn't make sense because the speed you scrubbed off to get to the right was going to cost you a spot or two by the Bus Stop anyways.
That being said, Sean and I got by your incident with a bit of patience and intuition.
I think the biggest problem (and the biggest question) came when the Turbo (for what ever reason) hit Sean at a pretty good pace. He clearly saw your white smoke from the slide but it appears (and I reiterate that, it appears) that the only reactionary move was to move right and stay right. If Sean and I, being AT the incident first, had time to slow then so did he.
He was the 5th car wide on the straight and perhaps saw the impending blue guardrail and got spooked but the grass is a very usable area in case of emergency and it was plenty dry by that time.
That's racing, huh? Also I don't think any scrut would ever rough up a driver for adding a mirror where there factory didn't.
Steve
Keep your eyes open for the 2008 version of my old spider graphic scheme, Boris the spider is back.
Jess, I think the problem everyone had with you was that you made a very strange move and as we all know it ended rather badly for you and created the opportunity for Sean and I to get whacked. The pace was not the problem had you tracked out left (or center) and run down to the Bus Stop then this thread may have been about the awesome drive that you put in for your first time on the track. Instead you needlessly chose not to trackout and to come all the way back to the right just after the most dangerous area of the Glen. If Will had not been there you would have run down to the Bus Stop along the right edge of the track. That is why you are being talked about in a somewhat unpleasant way, it just didn't make sense because the speed you scrubbed off to get to the right was going to cost you a spot or two by the Bus Stop anyways.
That being said, Sean and I got by your incident with a bit of patience and intuition.
I think the biggest problem (and the biggest question) came when the Turbo (for what ever reason) hit Sean at a pretty good pace. He clearly saw your white smoke from the slide but it appears (and I reiterate that, it appears) that the only reactionary move was to move right and stay right. If Sean and I, being AT the incident first, had time to slow then so did he.
He was the 5th car wide on the straight and perhaps saw the impending blue guardrail and got spooked but the grass is a very usable area in case of emergency and it was plenty dry by that time.
That's racing, huh? Also I don't think any scrut would ever rough up a driver for adding a mirror where there factory didn't.
Steve
Keep your eyes open for the 2008 version of my old spider graphic scheme, Boris the spider is back.
06-03-2008, 02:53 PM
#128
Rennlist
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First and foremost, I take full responsibility for drifting into Bill, the blue 113 car. I didn't know he had gotten his left front tire even with my right rear, I was trying to get back to the line I had been running all weekend and simply didn't gauge his speed correctly. I moved over, we made contact and I spun into the armco.
<snip>
I want to address a few points that have been brought up in this thread. I don't intend to come across as defensive but to some degree I feel like I'm being vilified here so bear with me.
<snip>
I want to address a few points that have been brought up in this thread. I don't intend to come across as defensive but to some degree I feel like I'm being vilified here so bear with me.
I think that the "vilification" you mention is due to the frustration that the entire sequence of events happened at all. Losing sight of another car, especially at a new track is understandable, and unfortunate. But this is racing, and even the most experienced can make innocent mistakes. If it were my car that was involved, I would feel better after reading your response.
Like with Sean & Steve, I am glad that no one was hurt and hope that the repair/replacement of your car is not too painful.
__________________
Larry Herman
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Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
06-03-2008, 03:02 PM
#129
Race Director
I think we need a rule suggestion to fix that situation. Race cars NEED MIRRORS
Lets not get crazy and start making stupid rules for no reason.
BTW...
I have meet Jess once back in 2002. He came to PIR to do PCA race and I was a rookie doing my first ever race. By chance our spaces in garage were right next to each other. We also shared the track in the same run group. I found Jess to be good fast driver and most importantly a guy with a great attitude. He was in fact one of the reasons I so enjoyed my first ever race.
(Picture taken April 2002 at PIR's Az PCA Club Race)
Now that does not mean good guys can't make a mistake. Some times luck runs out when you figured was safe going in turns out to be big mistake looking back. Racing incidents happen for all kinds of reasons not all of them are bonehead moves. Some are honest mistakes. Now lets ALL face facts. We take our cars to the race track and there is always the chance that something can happen turn our cars in scrap metal. Now when you talk about risk also consider we are racers. Racers TAKE RISKS... If we did not want to hang it out and run close to other cars we might as well stay in DE. So lets realize **** happens out there and it is not always an a-hole that causes it.
06-03-2008, 03:20 PM
#131
Rennlist Member
Joe, my question earlier in this thread (still unanswered) was: does PCA allow no right side mirror WITHOUT also mandating some sort of panorama or wink mirror like you and others have?
06-03-2008, 03:33 PM
#132
Race Director
944 Spec does require both stock mirrors in the stock locations. It is mostly to ensure equal aero, but also to prevent folks from using it as a crutch for not seeing another car. It is the driver's responsiblity to be aware of their surroundings mirrors or not.
In the end how do you enforce it? I can put in a mirrors so small it is useless or like my car now have a mirror and can't see out of it.
06-03-2008, 03:35 PM
#133
Three Wheelin'
Jess has run out here in our neck of the woods for years & is a VERY competent & aware driver. We have watched him duel cleanly many, many times around here w/o incident. This was just a very unfortunate accident & I'm sorry for everybody who was involved 
Now back to my mirror comment. My point was that while you may not need or routinely use a right hand door mirror, in a situation such as this I personally want as many available reference points as possible to avoid contact. I don't think more mirrors is ever a detriment. I have a wink multi panel in my car. The advantage it has over a convex mirror is realistic depth perception. We will never know if that would have helped Jess in this situation but it might have. Bill may have looked clear when he actually wasn't. A flat, multi-panel mirror might have helped reveal that.
PS: And no, I don't like unnecessary rules either but if it could prevent something like this from re-occurring, it's a worthwhile consideration.
Now back to my mirror comment. My point was that while you may not need or routinely use a right hand door mirror, in a situation such as this I personally want as many available reference points as possible to avoid contact. I don't think more mirrors is ever a detriment. I have a wink multi panel in my car. The advantage it has over a convex mirror is realistic depth perception. We will never know if that would have helped Jess in this situation but it might have. Bill may have looked clear when he actually wasn't. A flat, multi-panel mirror might have helped reveal that.
PS: And no, I don't like unnecessary rules either but if it could prevent something like this from re-occurring, it's a worthwhile consideration.
My 944 has a right side mirror. However since installing my right side net and HANS it is has become useless. I can't turn my head to see it and also the interior net is in the way. So I put in a large 5 panel wink mirror to cover that view. Frankly it does as well or even better than stock mirror did. Just because there is not right side mirror does not mean the driver is blind there.
Lets not get crazy and start making stupid rules for no reason.
BTW...
I have meet Jess once back in 2002. He came to PIR to do PCA race and I was a rookie doing my first ever race. By chance our spaces in garage were right next to each other. We also shared the track in the same run group. I found Jess to be good fast driver and most importantly a guy with a great attitude. He was in fact one of the reasons I so enjoyed my first ever race.
(Picture taken April 2002 at PIR's Az PCA Club Race)
Now that does not mean good guys can't make a mistake. Some times luck runs out when you figured was safe going in turns out to be big mistake looking back. Racing incidents happen for all kinds of reasons not all of them are bonehead moves. Some are honest mistakes. Now lets ALL face facts. We take our cars to the race track and there is always the chance that something can happen turn our cars in scrap metal. Now when you talk about risk also consider we are racers. Racers TAKE RISKS... If we did not want to hang it out and run close to other cars we might as well stay in DE. So lets realize **** happens out there and it is not always an a-hole that causes it.
Lets not get crazy and start making stupid rules for no reason.
BTW...
I have meet Jess once back in 2002. He came to PIR to do PCA race and I was a rookie doing my first ever race. By chance our spaces in garage were right next to each other. We also shared the track in the same run group. I found Jess to be good fast driver and most importantly a guy with a great attitude. He was in fact one of the reasons I so enjoyed my first ever race.
(Picture taken April 2002 at PIR's Az PCA Club Race)
Now that does not mean good guys can't make a mistake. Some times luck runs out when you figured was safe going in turns out to be big mistake looking back. Racing incidents happen for all kinds of reasons not all of them are bonehead moves. Some are honest mistakes. Now lets ALL face facts. We take our cars to the race track and there is always the chance that something can happen turn our cars in scrap metal. Now when you talk about risk also consider we are racers. Racers TAKE RISKS... If we did not want to hang it out and run close to other cars we might as well stay in DE. So lets realize **** happens out there and it is not always an a-hole that causes it.
06-03-2008, 03:52 PM
#134
Rennlist Member
It's great that Jess man'd up here in public and I look forward to him returning to the track. Just so everyone is clear about one thing (as many are not intimate with the Glen), the ONLY reason not to stay tracking out coming out of the S's would be to (as Steve intimated) throw a block. In my eyes there were two mistakes here, first one was to attempt a block on the 4th turn of Lap 1, second one was to attempt a block on the 4th turn of Lap 1 too late. Jess knows it and my guess is will have a 12" CONVEX over there on his next car 
. While it was his move that started the snowball, it was the 944 that made it all go bad..
to Jess.
. While it was his move that started the snowball, it was the 944 that made it all go bad.. to Jess.
06-03-2008, 03:57 PM
#135
Agent Orange
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Regarding the outside mirror my take is that you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. You can mandate two outside mirrors, but if the driver doesn't use them, what's the point? Just like you mandate a 5- or 6-point harness to be installed, but if the driver doesn't like the sub straps rubbing against his marbles it quickly becomes a 4-point harness.
If someone has a better way of looking back they would do that. You think the mirrors in the early 964 Cups are useful? There is only a spec of glass on that thing the size of a cell phone screen. Completely useless. If the driver has a panoramic mirror inside and it works for them, they can use that. My opinion only.
If someone has a better way of looking back they would do that. You think the mirrors in the early 964 Cups are useful? There is only a spec of glass on that thing the size of a cell phone screen. Completely useless. If the driver has a panoramic mirror inside and it works for them, they can use that. My opinion only.