Bob Rouleau

Here is a copy of an email I sent to the Zone 1 Execs:
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In Rennsport Region, our instructors believe the new harness rule, i.e. 5 years before replacement is completely without merit. I just come off a DE. I instructed in a 1974 911 with 270,000 kilometers on it (160,000 miles) with the original 3 point seat belts (which appeared fine when inspected visually). This is fine with PCA. I am safe to use them apparently.

On the other hand I also instructed in a 996 GT3 which was delivered in April of 2003 and immediately equipped with proper GT3 seats, roll bar and Porsche supplied Schroth harnesses which were now over 5 years old. The car had less than 25,000 miles on it. Technically I was supposed to use the (also over five years old) three point OEM belts. Those would be safe whereas the Schroth harness is deemed unsafe. Sure.

I violated the rule and not only allowed the 5 year old harness, I wore it. Gentlemen, the rule makes no sense whatsoever.

Bob Rouleau - speaking only for myself.

shiners780

From the Niagara Region Tech Chair...Bravo!

jester911

Double bagger

BrianKeithSmith

Makes good sense to me...

Unless the car rolls through tech and those harnesses look totally haggard and worn - they're still better than a 3 pt any day - I'd think. If not , somebody explain it to me...

Qwickrick

I encountered this when I was helping on the tech line with Potomac Region. Not my region, but I kept thinking that if we start inspecting for 5 year old harnesses, shouldn't we also inspect for proper mounting of those harnesses? I was helping someone adjust their harnesses, and when I looked the the anti-dive and the two lap belts were just attached to the seat frame and not the chassis.

Z-man

Most aftermarket 5/6 point harnesses do not have any UV protection built into them, while stock seat belts have 'adequate' UV protection to last a long time. I believe this a significant part of this new rule.

NNJR adopted that rule recently, switching from a longer 10 year replacement strategy. Unless your harnesses are in a car that bakes out in the sun for extended periods of time, I feel the harnesses should last at least 10 years.

One can have the old harnesses re-webbed, thus extending their life -- but is it really worth it, when it only costs a little more to buy new belts altogether?

Just my own personal opinion... And yes, I bought a new set of harnesses since mine are 5 years old.
-Z-man.

Bob Rouleau

Z-Man, I don't know if Schroth harnesses are UV protected or not. My car gets used about 45 days a year. The rest of the time it is in a garage - typical in these parts. How much UV is that I wonder? After 5 years my belts see less sun than a car parked outdoors for a year.

Those Schroth belts cost 600 hundred bucks a set by the way.

Bob Rouleau

From Scroth web site:
Webbing that makes the difference!

The webbing we use is especially designed and manufactured for SCHROTH. Each lot manufactured must pass our stringent quality control procedures. SCHROTH only uses Polyester material. Polyester has advantages over Polyamide (NYLON®) webbing. Advantages, such as lesser degradation under light (see figure 1) and a resistance against acids like battery acid. In addition Polyester does not absorb moisture so the performance of SCHROTH harnesses do not change.

DaveM993

In my view this is ALL about liability. An OEM (original!) belt is designed, manufactured and fitted under the oversight of the car manufacturer. So regardless of condition, this gives PCA some 'protection' from a liability perspective. In the case of aftermarket harnesses, PCA may not have the same protection...so the requirement naturally becomes MORE stringent...or actually, by default needs to be consistent with the manufacturer's recommendation. Otherwise one would have to argue why PCA feels that the belt life is longer than the manufacturer's recommendation...which potentially puts PCA in a bad position liability wise. Unfortunately, this is a prime example of how our litigious society has actually created a situation where a clearly "safer" set-up is, in my view, discouraged because the liability aspects are not as clear cut as an OEM set-up.

If PCA was really ONLY concerned about safety...this rule would be changed...but unfortunately, and through no fault of their own, other considerations are (have to?) entering into the equation...IMHO

YMMV

Mark in Baltimore

I agree that most track cars spend most of their lives either indoors or under a car cover, at worst.

Bob, I agree. Why not submit a rule change proposal to PCA club racing? The other PCA DE powers-that-be are taking a cue from what PCA club racing has deemed to be safe. You have until June 1 to do it.



The rule change proposal period for PCA Club Racing is now open. Send your rule change proposals to CRrules@pca.org before June 1, 2008.

http://www.pca.org/clubrace/

DarkSideDE

Could we possible petition Pete Tremper and the DE/Club Race boards of PCA National - and ask for different regulations for Club Racers and Driver Ed goers?

For a race I know that we all want the cars to be as safe as they can be. But a DE is a different animal, and maybe it is time is gets treated as such.

Sign me--

The gal who wants a PCA Racing School (to pull all the wannabe racers out of the DEs).

Qwickrick

I went to the HCR advanced DE days at the Glen (cups and saucers) recently. There were over 20 GT3's, plus Turbos, plus club racers, plus new and older Cup Cars. I know we like to think that DE is not racing, but a lot of cars in advanced groups are definitely going at racing speeds, and safety should never be compromised because it's DE.
I don't know enough about why national wants regions to enforce the 5 year harness rule, but I don't necessarily agree that DE is a totally different animal.

amondc

I think the rules should be the same for DE and Club race. I know of several cars that have had major contact and rolled over in a DE so yes the idea is different but the risks are the same and therefore the saftey should be the same. I dont think the 5 year rule is good but maybe something to the effect of "if the car is in an accident, then the belts have to be replaced"?

Qwickrick

I don't race, but I'm now thinking of a fuel cell and full cage just because of the speeds now common at DE events.

Jarez Mifkin

It's your A$$, why not get the best safety equipment possible? Hell, in NASA if you have SFI belts instead of FIA then you have to replace them every two years. My car stays inside and under a cover, but if the rules say replace every 2 years I'm doing it because I don't want to chance blowing a tire out at 140 mph and hitting a wall with old belts. The belt rules are there for a reason, to save your A$$! I think it's crazy that people spend $1500 on a set of tires, sometimes for every event, but they complain about a $600 harness.