ALMS vs Grand Am Rolex
05-07-2008, 10:23 AM
#16
Nordschleife Master
The Daytona prototypes are a tubular steel chassis whereas the ALM prototypes are carbon fibre monocoupe chassis. Grand Am desires all of the DPs to run a similar production based V8, the would like to see the Porsche 6 disappear. The cars are very spec like, only a few chassis manufacturers allowed, and only a few engines allowed with tight control over camshaft profile, compression ratio, etc. Grand Am DPs are Nascar for road courses. The cars must be a blast to drive, but they are not like the prototypes in ALMS which are technically superior.
No merger will ever happen.
No merger will ever happen.
05-07-2008, 11:22 AM
#17
Drifting
I like the existence of both series.
GA Rolex for the "budget" minded.
ALMS for the bigger "budget" minded.
There is now real racing in ALMS, Audi versus Porsche versus Acura/Honda, and Porsche versus Ferrari. This is good for us, the fans.
GA has always had tighter races, as governed by their rules. I think DP cars are really ugly.
GA Rolex for the "budget" minded.
ALMS for the bigger "budget" minded.
There is now real racing in ALMS, Audi versus Porsche versus Acura/Honda, and Porsche versus Ferrari. This is good for us, the fans.
GA has always had tighter races, as governed by their rules. I think DP cars are really ugly.
They are very different and I like being able to watch both.
05-07-2008, 12:05 PM
#18
Three Wheelin'
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There's significant differences in the two series' cars. ALMS allows more technology into their series such as composite brakes and different sized fuel cells. This is because the manufacturers, who are the prime competitors in ALMS want to showcase and test their technology. Grand AM on the other hand, is more of a spec-series for the privateer. Although GM, Honda, Toyota and Porsche supply assistance to the teams in the form of engine programs and making factory drivers available for the premier races, the cars are built-up from the owners purchasing the chassis from one of I believe there is like 5 approved chassis manufacturers, and the four approved engine manufacturers.
Its kind of entertaining racing because its like NASCAR on a road course I guess and nobody can really run away too far from the rest of the competition resulting in tight racing. But they seem to have the NASCAR fender rubbing, door-banging mentality, although lately ALMS hasn't been far behind in that regard either.
In the ALMS defense the contact results because the LMPs are mixed in with two classes of slower GT cars. The prototypes seem to have no issue with punting off-track if they feel they're getting held-up. In GA its my perception that the GT cars aren't appreciably slower than the Prototypes so its one big pack screaming around the track like a bunch of Sprint Cup cars around an oval.
Different strokes for different folks, but I'm still an ALMS fan. I haven't been back to the 24 Hours of Daytona since they went GA.
Its kind of entertaining racing because its like NASCAR on a road course I guess and nobody can really run away too far from the rest of the competition resulting in tight racing. But they seem to have the NASCAR fender rubbing, door-banging mentality, although lately ALMS hasn't been far behind in that regard either.
In the ALMS defense the contact results because the LMPs are mixed in with two classes of slower GT cars. The prototypes seem to have no issue with punting off-track if they feel they're getting held-up. In GA its my perception that the GT cars aren't appreciably slower than the Prototypes so its one big pack screaming around the track like a bunch of Sprint Cup cars around an oval.
Different strokes for different folks, but I'm still an ALMS fan. I haven't been back to the 24 Hours of Daytona since they went GA.
05-07-2008, 01:42 PM
#20
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Hey Brian,
Yep, for us amateurs SCCA SRF racing is a great way to go because it is a driver's series, and relatively speaking cheap. I can't get away from anyone and they can't get away from me! So it does breed a lot of Kamikazee moves and banging and pushing. But you also learn car control, and how to set someone up for the pass too.
The most expensive incident I've ever had was backing it into the wall at Daytona. That's hitting the expensive end by the way. Ripped the right rear suspension and frame off the car. After getting my CSR to do a rear frame clip, I rebuilt the rest of the car in about a two-month period of time just working weekends on it. The total bill was $5 grand. You do get a lot of practice in fiberglass repair, painting, replacing bent suspension pieces, and the occasional radiator replacement. However, when all of the IT and GT guys were thrashing in the pits rebuilding motors, trannys, and the like, I'd make a couple of chassis and air pressure adjustments, bolt check it, look for leaks and any other discrepencies, which were rare, gas it, and then sit down, get a cool drink, watch my in-car video, look at the data, think about the next session, have lunch, and be rested to go back out on track.
If you can drive an SRF fast, you're a quick racer because its nothing but a momentum car. If you're braking or lifting you're losing. You learn left-foot braking, trail-braking and all kinds of other tricks to keep the fast pedal down and your speed up. Its like a big shifter kart.
SRF is a great entry-level, amateur class. By the time you're good enough to drive the Rolex, or ALMS, I'd assume you'd be way past this point and driving style. Unfortunately, all too often they're not, in either series! I can understand it on the last lap, going for the win or a position. But in a 12 or 24-hour race you aren't going to win until the last lap so you have to stay smooth, keep the car clean and be there at the end. I've never done a real study, but its my perception that usually the overall winner is the one who spent the least time in the pits. Banging around on each other and having to make stops to repair damage and impact the car's maximm performance isn't the way to do that.
My real reason for preferring ALMS is the technology. I want to see the manufacturer's develop, and integrate technology they developed on the track into production cars. I think that's the win-win of racing. The GA guys are just SCCA SRF and IT racers with a lot bigger budget.
Just my $.02 though. If you ever get down here to the SEDivision let me know. We'll hook up and have a beer.
Yep, for us amateurs SCCA SRF racing is a great way to go because it is a driver's series, and relatively speaking cheap. I can't get away from anyone and they can't get away from me! So it does breed a lot of Kamikazee moves and banging and pushing. But you also learn car control, and how to set someone up for the pass too.
The most expensive incident I've ever had was backing it into the wall at Daytona. That's hitting the expensive end by the way. Ripped the right rear suspension and frame off the car. After getting my CSR to do a rear frame clip, I rebuilt the rest of the car in about a two-month period of time just working weekends on it. The total bill was $5 grand. You do get a lot of practice in fiberglass repair, painting, replacing bent suspension pieces, and the occasional radiator replacement. However, when all of the IT and GT guys were thrashing in the pits rebuilding motors, trannys, and the like, I'd make a couple of chassis and air pressure adjustments, bolt check it, look for leaks and any other discrepencies, which were rare, gas it, and then sit down, get a cool drink, watch my in-car video, look at the data, think about the next session, have lunch, and be rested to go back out on track.
If you can drive an SRF fast, you're a quick racer because its nothing but a momentum car. If you're braking or lifting you're losing. You learn left-foot braking, trail-braking and all kinds of other tricks to keep the fast pedal down and your speed up. Its like a big shifter kart.
SRF is a great entry-level, amateur class. By the time you're good enough to drive the Rolex, or ALMS, I'd assume you'd be way past this point and driving style. Unfortunately, all too often they're not, in either series! I can understand it on the last lap, going for the win or a position. But in a 12 or 24-hour race you aren't going to win until the last lap so you have to stay smooth, keep the car clean and be there at the end. I've never done a real study, but its my perception that usually the overall winner is the one who spent the least time in the pits. Banging around on each other and having to make stops to repair damage and impact the car's maximm performance isn't the way to do that.
My real reason for preferring ALMS is the technology. I want to see the manufacturer's develop, and integrate technology they developed on the track into production cars. I think that's the win-win of racing. The GA guys are just SCCA SRF and IT racers with a lot bigger budget.
Just my $.02 though. If you ever get down here to the SEDivision let me know. We'll hook up and have a beer.
05-07-2008, 02:51 PM
#22
Drifting
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My real reason for preferring ALMS is the technology. I want to see the manufacturer's develop, and integrate technology they developed on the track into production cars. I think that's the win-win of racing. The GA guys are just SCCA SRF and IT racers with a lot bigger budget.
05-07-2008, 04:52 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
Racing all the same cars is pretty boring to me with Grand AM Rolex. I usually fast forward the broadcast til they get to showing the GT cars. Its almost as boring as watching GT1 in ALMS. How can these guys even accept a trophy with a straight face. DUDE! 2 cars is not a class. They would be better off making a GT3 class where ALL world challenge cars from any year could compete! 
Since there is such a problem with popularity with sports car racing, GRANDAM Rolex has just diluted it even more. combine the grand am cars with alms. forget about running those porsche cup cars in Grand am GT2, and leave them to the supercup series. run all alms porsches in a class called GT2 accross the board. kick up the power of the vets and RX8s and vipers and let them all go at it.
Take the DPs and toss them or make them a little larger or faster to compete with the LMP2s. Better yet, ditch the DPs and Ditch the LMP2 and LMP1 class and make GT1 the showcase sportscar class, so we get cars that look like sports cars again! In my opinon, who needs "formula 1 cars" with Fenders!
mk
Since there is such a problem with popularity with sports car racing, GRANDAM Rolex has just diluted it even more. combine the grand am cars with alms. forget about running those porsche cup cars in Grand am GT2, and leave them to the supercup series. run all alms porsches in a class called GT2 accross the board. kick up the power of the vets and RX8s and vipers and let them all go at it.
Take the DPs and toss them or make them a little larger or faster to compete with the LMP2s. Better yet, ditch the DPs and Ditch the LMP2 and LMP1 class and make GT1 the showcase sportscar class, so we get cars that look like sports cars again! In my opinon, who needs "formula 1 cars" with Fenders!
mk
05-07-2008, 06:56 PM
#24
Burning Brakes
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Daytona Prototype:
http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...of_status_quo/
ALMS GT1 does have an improvement over 2007 with the addition of Bell Motorsports with drivers Terry Borcheller and Chapman Ducote.
Jim Bell helped with the winning Kremer Porsche 935 at Le Mans in 1979.
http://www.americanlemans.com/driver...eam.aspx?ID=35
http://www.terryborcheller.com/
http://www.chapmanducote.com/
Inside the team's progess:
http://www.americanlemans.com/news/Article.aspx?ID=4057
http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...of_status_quo/
ALMS GT1 does have an improvement over 2007 with the addition of Bell Motorsports with drivers Terry Borcheller and Chapman Ducote.
Jim Bell helped with the winning Kremer Porsche 935 at Le Mans in 1979.
http://www.americanlemans.com/driver...eam.aspx?ID=35
http://www.terryborcheller.com/
http://www.chapmanducote.com/
Inside the team's progess:
http://www.americanlemans.com/news/Article.aspx?ID=4057
05-08-2008, 09:35 AM
#25
Drifting
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The best and most historic sports cars in the world (including Porsches) have all been prototype cars. You can't get rid of purpose built race cars...that's the entire point of sports car racing. GT cars are fun, but they aren't "real", built from the ground up, race cars.
05-08-2008, 10:20 AM
#26
Three Wheelin'
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Depends on the GT car and sanctioning body I guess Bryan. As I understand it, and since I pay scant attention to GA I could be wrong, but the Pontiacs running in the GT class are tube-framed almost mini-Sprint Cup cars. The Porsches however, are uni-body tubs with some stiffening enhancements and driver protection pieces added from the factory in Germany when sold as a customer race chassis. Somehow, that doesn't seem to quite jive with equality IMHO. That purpose-built tube-frame should be a much better base for the car's other systems to work from. Since I have no real knowledge of the circumstances behind this I don't know if its a rule issue from the sanctioning body, or the manufacturers made that decision.
05-08-2008, 02:11 PM
#27
Drifting
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Depends on the GT car and sanctioning body I guess Bryan. As I understand it, and since I pay scant attention to GA I could be wrong, but the Pontiacs running in the GT class are tube-framed almost mini-Sprint Cup cars. The Porsches however, are uni-body tubs with some stiffening enhancements and driver protection pieces added from the factory in Germany when sold as a customer race chassis. Somehow, that doesn't seem to quite jive with equality IMHO. That purpose-built tube-frame should be a much better base for the car's other systems to work from. Since I have no real knowledge of the circumstances behind this I don't know if its a rule issue from the sanctioning body, or the manufacturers made that decision.
05-08-2008, 03:47 PM
#29
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05-08-2008, 04:34 PM
#30
Three Wheelin'
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I owned SRF chassis number 506. I finally sold her last year when work just got to the point I was looking at it lovingly in the garage versus driving it anymore. That's been my screen name ever since I got her in 1991. I'm hoping to get one of the new SCCA sports racers in a couple of years when this project I'm on slows down, or I decide to go sail the Carribean and get a big sailboat! Either way, the outlay's about the same!...Jim P.