Roll Call for HCR "Cups and Saucers" at the Glen
05-17-2008, 10:14 AM
#151
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: On Rennlist, apparently
Posts: 4,447
Likes: 0
Received 37 Likes
on
18 Posts
But, I'm working on that. My kids bought me an hour with Speed Secrets and I learned a couple of really helpful things to help me get to a better level.
Of course, I will still need to give passing signals...
Wish you and Jen could have joined us this year.
Soon??
05-17-2008, 01:06 PM
#155
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 139
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cups & Saucers
OK let me try to clear up some of the fiction from fact.
The comment to the gentlemen on the second day drivers meeting was a off the cuff remark that was given in reference to the constant complaint from him that we were not running as printed on the schedule. It was not meant to insult anyone particular and I had no idea that it would be taken that way. I immediately apoligized for it when the reaction was seen but was called an ******* buy the complainer in front of everyone anyway. So be it.
I was not happy with Uncle Bills lecture to the entrants and the tone that it set. We had diffuculty with some Cup Car entrants last year and Uncle Bill was worried about the same type of action this year...but as stated the negativity was not appreciated.
What people don't see the constant complaints and actions that are needed through out the day as people approach and feel that they have been slighted or need some help with a problem.
As drivers ....as I stated in the drivers meeting..90% were doing a great job and most were understanding what had to be done that day. Others were very vocal about there ideas and that becomes in issue.
This event has been in a constant state of change (new this year was Speed Secrets as coaches) and will continue to be. I myself am just about burned out as this chair and it definetly shows. In spite of all this I have heard more good comments and personal congradulations this year than ever before, so the majority like the forum.
People have to lighten up and realize that any person talking in a drivers meeting is concerned first with there safety and second with there enjoyment.
No one is trying to be personally insulting or to treat anyone like children, far from it , this IS a serious sport.
To have 12 drivers pass 2 black flags
on the first morning series was unacceptable and troubling. Adding to this mix were new flaggers at WG and it was a constant effort by Uncle Bill and myself to keep up.
Next year a different series of mechanisms will be used to figure out drivers history and who will be accepted. The evolution will continue.
I would like to thank all entrants personally for there support and hope that they will give it another try in the future.
Marty
The comment to the gentlemen on the second day drivers meeting was a off the cuff remark that was given in reference to the constant complaint from him that we were not running as printed on the schedule. It was not meant to insult anyone particular and I had no idea that it would be taken that way. I immediately apoligized for it when the reaction was seen but was called an ******* buy the complainer in front of everyone anyway. So be it.
I was not happy with Uncle Bills lecture to the entrants and the tone that it set. We had diffuculty with some Cup Car entrants last year and Uncle Bill was worried about the same type of action this year...but as stated the negativity was not appreciated.
What people don't see the constant complaints and actions that are needed through out the day as people approach and feel that they have been slighted or need some help with a problem.
As drivers ....as I stated in the drivers meeting..90% were doing a great job and most were understanding what had to be done that day. Others were very vocal about there ideas and that becomes in issue.
This event has been in a constant state of change (new this year was Speed Secrets as coaches) and will continue to be. I myself am just about burned out as this chair and it definetly shows. In spite of all this I have heard more good comments and personal congradulations this year than ever before, so the majority like the forum.
People have to lighten up and realize that any person talking in a drivers meeting is concerned first with there safety and second with there enjoyment.
No one is trying to be personally insulting or to treat anyone like children, far from it , this IS a serious sport.
To have 12 drivers pass 2 black flags
on the first morning series was unacceptable and troubling. Adding to this mix were new flaggers at WG and it was a constant effort by Uncle Bill and myself to keep up.
Next year a different series of mechanisms will be used to figure out drivers history and who will be accepted. The evolution will continue.
I would like to thank all entrants personally for there support and hope that they will give it another try in the future.
Marty
05-17-2008, 01:09 PM
#156
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: On Rennlist, apparently
Posts: 4,447
Likes: 0
Received 37 Likes
on
18 Posts
John Jacobson (sp?); I really liked his method, which was calm and analytical.
He also complimented me on my driving and my car - but I'll bet they all do that.
Joking aside, he gave me the way to do what I already knew I needed, but hadn't quite done yet. That must be a sign of a good teacher.
Well worth the cost.
He also complimented me on my driving and my car - but I'll bet they all do that.
Joking aside, he gave me the way to do what I already knew I needed, but hadn't quite done yet. That must be a sign of a good teacher.
Well worth the cost.
05-17-2008, 01:23 PM
#157
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
John must be cut from the same mold as Scott. Scott uses the same tone in the car as he used in his half hour classroom with us. Low key, calming voice, and working on one thing at a time, that must be their credo.
Doesn't everyone compliment you on your car?
Doesn't everyone compliment you on your car?
05-17-2008, 01:26 PM
#158
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: MA
Posts: 1,010
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
05-17-2008, 01:50 PM
#159
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: MA
Posts: 1,010
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
He insisted that I needed to smooth it out a bit. I assented and we went out again. I drove 'smooth' and got thumbs up in every corner. When we talked afterwards, I suppose he did offer a backhanded compliment by saying, "You know in those first two laps I thought I was going to die, but your car control skills are excellent." The sad thing was that I reviewed the data afterwards and all that smoothness made me 2 seconds a lap slower. Sigh.. Being a renegade early 911 driver means always having to say you're sorry, even when you aren't really.
05-17-2008, 02:37 PM
#160
Rennlist Member
RJay your welcome, photography is another hobby of mine that helps to drain my bank account.
Rick, I have to agree with you. Scott was great in the classroom, he gave a lot of great tips to help improve one's metal state while out on the track.
Aaron
Aaron
05-17-2008, 03:52 PM
#162
Rennlist Member
[This is MINDY, not Marc]
I would like only to address a small portion of what Marty is asserting as his carte blanche for saying anything he pleases. This is safety; specifically the thought that any indiscretion is overridden by a prevailing need for him to represent and enforce the safety requirements necessary for such a serious event. I suggest, Marty, that you are dead wrong here and that your behavior makes your events LESS safe than any other PCA DE's.
In order for a DE to be safe the person running the show must be respected by the attendees. Noone will listen to the authority figure in the event of an unforeseen catastrophe unless that authority figure has earned the attention of his charges. By immediately turning off your attendees with foul language, an unwelcoming demeanor, off the cuff sexually degrading and insulting remarks targeted to a female driver who had said nothing to you, you unfortunately assure us that in the event you need to make a safety request, that many of the people who will need to heed your warnings will simply dismiss your utterances as further foolishness. At best.
I also suggest that someone who considers themselves "in charge" and places the participants in an inferior position to them, creates a dynamic much like supervisor-employee roles in an office setting. This is fine and even necessary. As such, however, the authority figure must assume a certain level of respect is shown to ensure that the relationship always remains in proper working condition. If the authority figure acts in an unseemly manner then there are 2 options only. Make it right, or never place yourself in that position of authority again. That second option is when HCR DE's will indeed be safe.
Great to see so many of my friends.
Prof, sorry to show you such a zoo of an event...
I would like only to address a small portion of what Marty is asserting as his carte blanche for saying anything he pleases. This is safety; specifically the thought that any indiscretion is overridden by a prevailing need for him to represent and enforce the safety requirements necessary for such a serious event. I suggest, Marty, that you are dead wrong here and that your behavior makes your events LESS safe than any other PCA DE's.
In order for a DE to be safe the person running the show must be respected by the attendees. Noone will listen to the authority figure in the event of an unforeseen catastrophe unless that authority figure has earned the attention of his charges. By immediately turning off your attendees with foul language, an unwelcoming demeanor, off the cuff sexually degrading and insulting remarks targeted to a female driver who had said nothing to you, you unfortunately assure us that in the event you need to make a safety request, that many of the people who will need to heed your warnings will simply dismiss your utterances as further foolishness. At best.
I also suggest that someone who considers themselves "in charge" and places the participants in an inferior position to them, creates a dynamic much like supervisor-employee roles in an office setting. This is fine and even necessary. As such, however, the authority figure must assume a certain level of respect is shown to ensure that the relationship always remains in proper working condition. If the authority figure acts in an unseemly manner then there are 2 options only. Make it right, or never place yourself in that position of authority again. That second option is when HCR DE's will indeed be safe.
Great to see so many of my friends.
Prof, sorry to show you such a zoo of an event...
05-17-2008, 05:01 PM
#163
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: On Rennlist, apparently
Posts: 4,447
Likes: 0
Received 37 Likes
on
18 Posts
Only my friends (you are an immediate friend if you like my car)!
If you say 'I really like your car and you were really smart to buy it all built up' then you become one of my best friends.
Real nice car you have there, too. I love red cars; especially fast ones like yours. I have instructed in several GT3s and they sure are impressive.
If you say 'I really like your car and you were really smart to buy it all built up' then you become one of my best friends.
Real nice car you have there, too. I love red cars; especially fast ones like yours. I have instructed in several GT3s and they sure are impressive.
05-17-2008, 05:12 PM
#164
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: MA
Posts: 1,010
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've never run a DE, but I've done four years of service on the board of my region and I'm currently its AX chair. One of the cornerstones of my philosophy for running events has been to embrace the notion that the inherent nature of human beings is good not evil. I hold to this belief despite over my years of service having had some significant evidence presented to the contrary. But whenever I have been disappointed in this regard, its always been on an individual level. I've never allowed myself to project the actions of a few individuals onto an entire group. I simply try to make the offender unwelcome and retain my somewhat Utopian vision for the world.
I have a well of sympathy for just how hard it is to pull an event of this size off and as such, and given my stated philosophy, I refuse to believe that anywhere in the running of this event was there any evil intent. In fact, I found that by the end, the organizers were somewhat contrite and I thought, judging from the second day, already recognized that they had perhaps waived one to many fingers at us. In my own case, I put two wheels off in 8 (or so they tell me, it was pretty close) and came straight in without a black flag. In the drivers meeting my number was called and it was claimed that I put two off and continued. I simply, quietly, after the meeting, went up to Marty, explained that I had indeed come in (in fact there were two other gentlemen who had the same claim made about them). It was immediately acknowledged that the mistake was on their part. The exchange between us was quite understanding and friendly.
So personally, I hope we can all just simply understand that yes, we all want to be treated with respect. We all want to be treated as innocent until proven guilty. We all want to be given the benefit of the doubt. I certainly hope that the HCR organizers, as well as any other chairs or registrars or track committee members from other regions in attendance understand exactly where this event started to unravel. And equally, I hope that they will take seriously the need to try to find the right words and tone to ensure that this sort of ill will does not recur. But likewise, for all the consumers among us, I hope that everyone who takes advantage of the very hard work that these people do, will recall that PCA is a volunteer organization, that no one is personally profiting from any of this, and that given the difficulty of walking the high wire that is running a DE and the potential for personal liability should something go seriously wrong, we should be fully prepared to cut them a very big break and offer a little forgiveness and constructive criticism rather than trying to ascribe blame or extract flesh.
I have a well of sympathy for just how hard it is to pull an event of this size off and as such, and given my stated philosophy, I refuse to believe that anywhere in the running of this event was there any evil intent. In fact, I found that by the end, the organizers were somewhat contrite and I thought, judging from the second day, already recognized that they had perhaps waived one to many fingers at us. In my own case, I put two wheels off in 8 (or so they tell me, it was pretty close) and came straight in without a black flag. In the drivers meeting my number was called and it was claimed that I put two off and continued. I simply, quietly, after the meeting, went up to Marty, explained that I had indeed come in (in fact there were two other gentlemen who had the same claim made about them). It was immediately acknowledged that the mistake was on their part. The exchange between us was quite understanding and friendly.
So personally, I hope we can all just simply understand that yes, we all want to be treated with respect. We all want to be treated as innocent until proven guilty. We all want to be given the benefit of the doubt. I certainly hope that the HCR organizers, as well as any other chairs or registrars or track committee members from other regions in attendance understand exactly where this event started to unravel. And equally, I hope that they will take seriously the need to try to find the right words and tone to ensure that this sort of ill will does not recur. But likewise, for all the consumers among us, I hope that everyone who takes advantage of the very hard work that these people do, will recall that PCA is a volunteer organization, that no one is personally profiting from any of this, and that given the difficulty of walking the high wire that is running a DE and the potential for personal liability should something go seriously wrong, we should be fully prepared to cut them a very big break and offer a little forgiveness and constructive criticism rather than trying to ascribe blame or extract flesh.