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Front Engine 911? (I theory)

 
Old 05-04-2008, 05:04 AM
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wanna911
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Default Front Engine 911? (I theory)

Why not? Leaving Porsches (and owners) fixation on the 911 out of it for a moment. The goal would be to create a better balance in the car.


Technically speaking, how would the wheel base have to change? (Longer?)


Front end? (wider, longer).

I'm sure fitting everything in the front would be a challenge, but on the Turbo cars relocating as much to the rear as possible would essentially be current 911 engineering in reverse. Putting the intercoolers in the rear behind the turbo ducting (I know the AWD would be VERY difficult to manage the front driveshaft in limited confines.

I just want to know how drastic the body changes would have to be for it to work.
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Old 05-04-2008, 05:21 AM
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I would guess that moving the engine forward a bit by 2012 is more likely than moving it to the front of the car.
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Old 05-04-2008, 05:41 AM
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wanna911
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I know it's very unlikely, just want to know the feasibilty.
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Old 05-04-2008, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by wanna911 View Post
Why not? Leaving Porsches (and owners) fixation on the 911 out of it for a moment. The goal would be to create a better balance in the car.

I just want to know how drastic the body changes would have to be for it to work.
How would it create a "better balance"? Different balance yes.

Climb in a 911 and sit backwards in the seat....now you know what the front end would need to look like! Rear would be optional.
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Old 05-04-2008, 10:27 AM
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wanna911
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So I guess all front engines cars look like the rear end of a 911?
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Old 05-04-2008, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by wanna911 View Post
Why not? Leaving Porsches (and owners) fixation on the 911 out of it for a moment. The goal would be to create a better balance in the car.


Technically speaking, how would the wheel base have to change? (Longer?)


Front end? (wider, longer).

I'm sure fitting everything in the front would be a challenge, but on the Turbo cars relocating as much to the rear as possible would essentially be current 911 engineering in reverse. Putting the intercoolers in the rear behind the turbo ducting (I know the AWD would be VERY difficult to manage the front driveshaft in limited confines.

I just want to know how drastic the body changes would have to be for it to work.
I don't think it would much resemble a 911 anymore. The front would have to get quite a bit taller and that would kill the basic 911 shape.

As far as "better" balance, that would not help. If you look at the cars where designers are free to get whatever balance they want for best performance, the designers go for around 40/60 F/R. 50/50 is not better balance, nor better performance.
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Old 05-04-2008, 10:54 AM
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Who said that the balance of the 911 needs to be fixed?

The platform has lived in production for over 40 years. That's pretty strong validation of the design.
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Old 05-04-2008, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by wanna911 View Post
So I guess all front engines cars look like the rear end of a 911?
Of course not...but they could if they used a flat boxer engine and wanted better aero. Sounds like you already have assumed what the front would look like if you think it would look like all other front engined cars.
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Old 05-04-2008, 11:53 AM
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If they put the 911 engine in the front, it would be called a 944. I agree with Mark, I don't consider 50/50 'better' balance.
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Old 05-04-2008, 12:05 PM
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Better balance?
Wouldn't that be a Cayman with a 997S motor?
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Old 05-04-2008, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by sjanes View Post
If they put the 911 engine in the front, it would be called a 944. I agree with Mark, I don't consider 50/50 'better' balance.

I'm not saying 50/50, but we are getting production street cars with 60/40 best case, many 65/35 even. I'm saying somewhere better than 60/40.

I recall many talks on the RSR's saying they were harder to driver at the limit, and the 911 is certainly not as tossable as a mid engine car, plus they have to deal with the rear tire dillemma, which causes them to opt to run the widebody and less hp instead of being able to run a narrow body and more hp. Then there is the cooling issue that's plagued the cup cars so much, I dont really know what causes that though.

So the benefits are not just in handling, the RR design has other complications too.


But I was just wondering if they could fit it in the front and keep the general body configuration the same. I think without all those problems they have to overcome to beat people, it would be utter domination, more like the Spyders or better.


I'd still rather them move the motor forward (from the rear) and eliminate the two fauz two rear seats in the GT3 and GT2. But that figures to change the appearance a little as well.
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Old 05-04-2008, 12:21 PM
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The best move would be the mid-engine Cayman with GT engine, suspension, trans, fender flares, etc.
Or, they could call transpose the engine and trans in the 911 and call it the 911-M (mid-engine).
Better tire management, perhaps a little bump in cornering speed making the car more competitive against Ferraris and the Pontiacs. This would likely be the car others chase for wins.
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Old 05-04-2008, 09:47 PM
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you can put the engine anywhere, call the car whatever. but a 911 MUST have engine in the back. it's not a matter of good or batter, but the definition of 911 is rear engined car.

it's like saying why not make a bicycle with three wheels.
you can, but it would be called tricycle.
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Old 05-04-2008, 10:43 PM
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Didn't "Otto" aka John Williamson do a mid-engined 911 for IMSA about 10 years ago? Not very successful, if I remember correctly.......
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Old 05-05-2008, 03:11 PM
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A front-engine 911 would have worse handling characteristics, not better. A mid-engine model would be ideal, in theory -- and there have been a few of them made, over time. (It doesn't require changing the basic silhouette of the car, which would be the case with a front-engine layout.) But rear weight bias offers a number of serious advantages, and the 911's 40-year racing history underscores that in the most practical, real-world way you could hope for.

It's easy to jump onto the idea that 50-50 weight distribution is always the goal. But in practical use, it's just not that huge a factor. Put a bunch of early 911s and 914s (and E30 M3s) with similar power-to-weight ratios on a track, and you'll see that other setup and suspension-geometry issues have a much bigger impact on who comes in first and who comes in last.
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