race911

I look at it as the opposite. Once upon a time, when club racing started, they didn't want to exclude the occasional participant. Obviously for wheel-to-wheel they had to mandate (minimally) a roll bar, a race seat and belts. Beyond that? I think the initial mission was for some friendly wheel-to-wheel that allowed pretty much all-comers. And not have to obsess over the penalty of needing the A/C for 150 other days of the year driving your car around v. 2, 3, 6 race weekends.

So the friendly and the all-comers parts haven't changed. But, the prep level certainly has!

944TURBOS

although a lot of those rules sound good. I really am one for keeping stock classes as stock as possible. Starting to take apart the interior of a car and removing AC etc, is taking away from what we call a "stock" class.....Its a sliding slope and where does it then stop. From here do we allow for lightweight panels etc? We are going to end up having a bunch of GT class cars if we keep that up. I think in order to keep stock classes in some sense somewhat stock, we should refrain from starting to make them more like GT cars....just a thought and my two cents...flame away!

Mark in Baltimore

I agree. The irony is that occasional, fully licensed participants now have to drive around with a full cage in their street cars (I know that rookie candidates can run four races only with a roll bar.) Every stock and prepared car has to make weight anyway; why not allow removal of the interior? It sure isn't to "save weight" and have a competitive advantage.

LPM911

while i don't disagree with you, its already too late. Once they decided to require full cage (which allows removal of headliner and gutting the doors), why keep the carpet?

x2

Sean F

I don't want a passenger seat between me and the only exit if I'm on my roof and on fire and driver's window is a no go. Safety should trump stock appearance every single time.

M758

Yeah, but...
... this is what prepared should be. Stock should be stock and prepared should allow easy mods like dumping interior, A/C, and a bunch of other crap you don't need to make the car go. The weights should be lower to reflect this as well. The motors in prepared should be stock as and so should the basic suspension (ie what is allowed in stock now). To keep from having a gut of new classes prepared mods (like gutting and 10% less weight) should be a class bump or something like it. This way if you want to stay with the interior you can run in a lower class vs the same car stripped out. Best of all worlds.

BTW... On thing that turned me off of PCA racing was I proposed something like this and not only was it turned down, but they change what I wrote. They seperated the interior removal from the 10% weight drop and killed the interoir stuff by saying it was not in the sprit of PCA and effectivly killed the 10% weight reducution by now allowing a cost effective way of getting there.


So I just run NASA in my stripped out yet underprepped stock 944. Yep a 944 spec car has less $$$ of prep in it than a Stock class 944 yet has no interior or AC. Hmm which is a better deal for low cost racers wishing to have fun.

race911

Since we're all kinda here right now on this, I want to go back to the flammability and safety aspect of full interiors for wheel-to-wheel racers. It bugged me when I was 21 and ran a Showroom Stock car in 1984. It bugs me today. And I'm no safety at all costs geek. Stock to F1, when you have more things that can burn right around you if the unfortunate "super big one" happens, that should trump all the dual purpose for stock class car arguments. (Obviously you can take this to the logical extension with then requiring fuel cells, etc.)

Brian P

I disagree about "stock is stock" mentality... I think you should be able to pull out the interior, passenger seat, A/C, etc. as long as your car makes weight. I'd be fine with a rule that says that A/C has to stay in if you are using ballast. (i.e., you aren't allowed to shift weight around in the car for performance reasons).

I'm comfortable with a rule that says you can run 10% under the weight minimum as a prepared change.

Sean F

+1,000

MarkSchu

Exactly...they are allowing extreme modifications to the car already for the sake of safety. I don't know what carpeting or the AC compressor have to do with that, nor do I understand how removing them gives you such an unfair advantage that you need to be moved into a different class. I think the stock class needs to refer to the drivetrain, the suspension type, the brakes, and the body, but other than that, as long as you make the weight, what difference does all this other stuff make?..."stock" is to me a class that allows for racing on a more economical basis, if there is such a thing, ie, I don't have to rebuild my engine every 25 hours. Requiring carpeting and the AC compressor goes against that concept IMHO. The prepared class should be reserved for people that are doing significant upgrades to the drivetrain, body, brakes or suspension, but not to the point that puts them in GT.

By the way, how many participants still drive their cars to the track?

Gary R.

IMO the removal of the passenger seat, in the D cars at least, is a saftey issue. I can see MUCH better without it in place through both my rear and right quarter window. The weight reduction is inconsequential with a Kirkey aluminum seat (and you have to make min. weight anyway). Also, egress in the case of a catastrophic accident would be better, one less item in the way.

chrisp

I'd like to see stock become more economical. I know a lot of folks who cannot do PCA because of the costs to be competitive or better yet the cost just to have fun and not be a total rolling chicane/hazard.

Removal of stuff is cool. That's free. It's the loopholes, rules that allow big budget (relative to entry level racing) modifications, and rules that accommodate the vast minority (like 8" & 9" widths in D-stock) that drive the cost up. I love the gadgets so I'm totally into it but there would be a lot more stock class racers if we could have something for the folks on more modest budgets.

Mark in Baltimore

The slope has already started and, since this is a club, I think it's great that the club listens to what its members want. Limitations such as weight, aero restrictions and body work constraints keep the stock and prepared classes in check.

Oh, and here's my G stock car's interior. Does it really make a difference if I rip out the carpeting???? I mean, really.

Mark in Baltimore

Remote reservoir shocks are already allowed in stock classes. Hardly what one would call "as delivered from the factory".

MarkSchu

Racing is expensive...and the only thing keeping Porsche racing from being the most expensive is Ferrari racing. But on that scale, stock is less expensive than GT, simply due to the fact that the engine and transmission are not part of your consummables budget. Anyway, the rules changes people are espousing won't increase costs at all.