Speculation that Ferrari engine failures due to Mclaren ECU
03-20-2008, 10:43 AM
#47
Drifting
Ferrari has announced that the issue was directly related to the heat in Melborne (100*+ F).
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/65898
I'm not sure if you need a subscription to read the article...
Ferrari are confident that their engine problems that marred their Australian Grand Prix were a one-off, after getting to the bottom of what caused their dramas in Melbourne.
The Italian team suffered a double engine failure on Felipe Massa and Kimi Raikkonen's cars at Albert Park, and flew the power units back to their Maranello base for analysis of what caused the malfunctions.
This work has established that the higher-than-expected temperatures in Australia contributed to a fuel-feel problem, which in turn led to a failure of the intake valves of the engines.
A Ferrari spokesman told autosport.com in Malaysia: "It was a fuel-feed problem partly related to the hot temperatures in Melbourne. It provoked a failure of the intake valve on both engines.
"It wasn't a quality control problem, nor was it a cooling problem. Obviously, you can't change these engines so we will work hard on improving the mapping, but we're confident this was a one-off."
Ferrari have also rubbished any talk that their problems were related to the introduction of the standard ECU in Formula One this year.
"It was not an ECU problem, although the new units do mean we have to learn new methods to operate the engine," added the spokesman.
The Italian team suffered a double engine failure on Felipe Massa and Kimi Raikkonen's cars at Albert Park, and flew the power units back to their Maranello base for analysis of what caused the malfunctions.
This work has established that the higher-than-expected temperatures in Australia contributed to a fuel-feel problem, which in turn led to a failure of the intake valves of the engines.
A Ferrari spokesman told autosport.com in Malaysia: "It was a fuel-feed problem partly related to the hot temperatures in Melbourne. It provoked a failure of the intake valve on both engines.
"It wasn't a quality control problem, nor was it a cooling problem. Obviously, you can't change these engines so we will work hard on improving the mapping, but we're confident this was a one-off."
Ferrari have also rubbished any talk that their problems were related to the introduction of the standard ECU in Formula One this year.
"It was not an ECU problem, although the new units do mean we have to learn new methods to operate the engine," added the spokesman.
I'm not sure if you need a subscription to read the article...
03-20-2008, 01:32 PM
#48
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03-20-2008, 01:43 PM
#49
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How many Ferrari Engines failed last weekend?
Alot... It sounds as if the common ECU could be part of the cause. Now this does not mean McLaren is sabotoging Ferrari, but is it quite possible the Ferrari motor needed a very specifc method of control and this is not possible in the common ECU. It could be down to things like sampling rates and other very detailed parts that are built into the what the ECU functions. It could also be due Experiencd Ferrari mechanics not being used to how to tweak the mappings for how this ECU fuctions. The sensitivies and gains could be such that you need to adjust the map differently for heat and you did for the old Ferrari units.
Alot... It sounds as if the common ECU could be part of the cause. Now this does not mean McLaren is sabotoging Ferrari, but is it quite possible the Ferrari motor needed a very specifc method of control and this is not possible in the common ECU. It could be down to things like sampling rates and other very detailed parts that are built into the what the ECU functions. It could also be due Experiencd Ferrari mechanics not being used to how to tweak the mappings for how this ECU fuctions. The sensitivies and gains could be such that you need to adjust the map differently for heat and you did for the old Ferrari units.
03-20-2008, 02:09 PM
#50
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So Ferrari has said multiple times that the ECU itself isn't to blame.
10,000 miles of testing (Four Thousand 2.5 mile laps) plus countless hours of engines on a dyno using this ECU.
If a 'common' ECU was the problem the issue would have effected more than just one engine.
With 3 Ferrari's going boom, it would seem to anyone who is thinking rationally that the problem was on Ferrari's end on not someone elses.
The common ECU may be part of the problem but it's not because of a malicious intent of Mclaren. It's because Ferrari hasn't figured it out but even then I have trouble believing that after 10,000 miles of road testing and countless dyno hours they don't have the ECU pretty well figured out.
10,000 miles of testing (Four Thousand 2.5 mile laps) plus countless hours of engines on a dyno using this ECU.
If a 'common' ECU was the problem the issue would have effected more than just one engine.
With 3 Ferrari's going boom, it would seem to anyone who is thinking rationally that the problem was on Ferrari's end on not someone elses.
The common ECU may be part of the problem but it's not because of a malicious intent of Mclaren. It's because Ferrari hasn't figured it out but even then I have trouble believing that after 10,000 miles of road testing and countless dyno hours they don't have the ECU pretty well figured out.
03-20-2008, 02:57 PM
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The new ECU is simpler and just does less stuff. This makes hidden traction control systems and the like impossible to do using custom ECU code. It is the lack of functionality, not the way in which the ECU functions that constitutes the limit on performance.
03-20-2008, 03:14 PM
#52
Drifting
How many Ferrari Engines failed last weekend?
Alot... It sounds as if the common ECU could be part of the cause. Now this does not mean McLaren is sabotoging Ferrari, but is it quite possible the Ferrari motor needed a very specifc method of control and this is not possible in the common ECU. It could be down to things like sampling rates and other very detailed parts that are built into the what the ECU functions. It could also be due Experiencd Ferrari mechanics not being used to how to tweak the mappings for how this ECU fuctions. The sensitivies and gains could be such that you need to adjust the map differently for heat and you did for the old Ferrari units.
Alot... It sounds as if the common ECU could be part of the cause. Now this does not mean McLaren is sabotoging Ferrari, but is it quite possible the Ferrari motor needed a very specifc method of control and this is not possible in the common ECU. It could be down to things like sampling rates and other very detailed parts that are built into the what the ECU functions. It could also be due Experiencd Ferrari mechanics not being used to how to tweak the mappings for how this ECU fuctions. The sensitivies and gains could be such that you need to adjust the map differently for heat and you did for the old Ferrari units.
Engines:
Kimi (Ferrari) - "fueling failure", same issue as in qualifying
Massa (Ferrari) - same issue as kimi
Sebastien (Torro Rosso) - catastrophic engine failure (seemingly unrelated to Ferrari cars)
Other:
Sebastian (Torro Rosso) - Collision
Giancarlo (Force India) - Collision
Adrian (Force India) - Hydrulics
03-20-2008, 07:27 PM
#53
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