Speculation that Ferrari engine failures due to Mclaren ECU
03-19-2008, 08:26 PM
#31
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First a few points to correct some mis-information in here:
1) The ECU's are new for EVERYONE... they are not simply last year's McLaren ECU, they are a new FIA-designed spec, which is then manufactured by McLaren.
2) The new ECU's are OPEN SOURCE, OPEN SCHEMATIC. While they are still a new design, and thus have a learning curve... they are not black boxes. Ferrari has no technical reason for not understanding the ECU 100%.
3) McLaren Electronic Systems is not McLaren F1 team. Yes they are owned by the same parent company, and yes they are in the same office building, but they are technically not one in the same.
4) The new engine rules allow for hardly any engine modifications at all. Last year all ancillary systems were still open, but this year even those are frozen.
Of course, given the above, Ferrari should be running the exact same engine as last year, but with a new ECU this year. I'm skeptical that it's McLaren sabbotagoe, but its more likely that it's one of:
1) Poor QA at Maranello due to recent changes in management.
2) Poor ECU programming due to engineer's unfamiliarity with the new system
3) Faults in the engine being exposed due to increased grip levels (the car's pulling more G's in the corners this year)
4) Faults in the engine being exposed due to the loss of TC this year (perhaps more quick rev changes due to traction events)
The whole "McLaren sabotaging Ferrari" thing just sounds too conspiracy theory, and too convenient for me. If McLaren were to do something to intentionally sabotage Ferrari, wouldn't they make it a little more subtle? If the current trend holds true, Ferrari won't finish a single race this year... and with all the manpower & talent back in Maranello that would be devoted to this if that were to happen, we can be assured they'd find evidence of the sabotage if it were there.... McLaren would know this, and would never risk it, especially knowing that it would likely lead to expulsion... or worse.
1) The ECU's are new for EVERYONE... they are not simply last year's McLaren ECU, they are a new FIA-designed spec, which is then manufactured by McLaren.
2) The new ECU's are OPEN SOURCE, OPEN SCHEMATIC. While they are still a new design, and thus have a learning curve... they are not black boxes. Ferrari has no technical reason for not understanding the ECU 100%.
3) McLaren Electronic Systems is not McLaren F1 team. Yes they are owned by the same parent company, and yes they are in the same office building, but they are technically not one in the same.
4) The new engine rules allow for hardly any engine modifications at all. Last year all ancillary systems were still open, but this year even those are frozen.
Of course, given the above, Ferrari should be running the exact same engine as last year, but with a new ECU this year. I'm skeptical that it's McLaren sabbotagoe, but its more likely that it's one of:
1) Poor QA at Maranello due to recent changes in management.
2) Poor ECU programming due to engineer's unfamiliarity with the new system
3) Faults in the engine being exposed due to increased grip levels (the car's pulling more G's in the corners this year)
4) Faults in the engine being exposed due to the loss of TC this year (perhaps more quick rev changes due to traction events)
The whole "McLaren sabotaging Ferrari" thing just sounds too conspiracy theory, and too convenient for me. If McLaren were to do something to intentionally sabotage Ferrari, wouldn't they make it a little more subtle? If the current trend holds true, Ferrari won't finish a single race this year... and with all the manpower & talent back in Maranello that would be devoted to this if that were to happen, we can be assured they'd find evidence of the sabotage if it were there.... McLaren would know this, and would never risk it, especially knowing that it would likely lead to expulsion... or worse.
Dude, you are living in the land of Oz. Please review how "subtle" McLaren was with their cheating episodes (also against Ferrari) that got then DQ'ed from the 2007 world championship.
03-19-2008, 08:27 PM
#32
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I'm convinced it is an ECU issue. Not intentional, but clearly an interface problem with the ECU and other electrical components of the car.
Although Scott points out that the ECU is not McLaren F1, it's too incestuous to not believe McLaren has a clear advantage in the development of the item.
These motors were developed with TC, launch control and other drivers aids in mind. The loss of those aids could be effecting the performance and if slicks are reintroduced next year, the variable of added lateral g load could be a factor as well. In short, these engines were not designed to not have these aids deleted. Now it's an issue of how long it will take Ferrari to adapt to this ECU, because the absence of TC, etc. is a big hit and the racing exciting again. It's here to stay.
Although Scott points out that the ECU is not McLaren F1, it's too incestuous to not believe McLaren has a clear advantage in the development of the item.
These motors were developed with TC, launch control and other drivers aids in mind. The loss of those aids could be effecting the performance and if slicks are reintroduced next year, the variable of added lateral g load could be a factor as well. In short, these engines were not designed to not have these aids deleted. Now it's an issue of how long it will take Ferrari to adapt to this ECU, because the absence of TC, etc. is a big hit and the racing exciting again. It's here to stay.
03-19-2008, 08:47 PM
#33
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03-19-2008, 09:25 PM
#35
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If I can jump in with a few thoughts.
Nobody likes the "common ECU" idea but nobody came up with a better way to control driver assists.
Everyone wants open development but then will yell up and down that "it's all about the car not the driving".
Presumably there was some thought that went into choosing McMicrosoft, they were chosen despite the well known animosity between Ron Dennis and Max Mosley. All teams agreed to it.
Ferrari did not exactly blame their fuel pump issue on Mclaren, if you take the trouble to find Stefano Domenicali's quote he blames Ferrari's inability to fully understand the ECU yet. There was no "whining".
Comments about "know-nothing European asshats" are more telling of the author than the subjects.
Nobody likes the "common ECU" idea but nobody came up with a better way to control driver assists.
Everyone wants open development but then will yell up and down that "it's all about the car not the driving".
Presumably there was some thought that went into choosing McMicrosoft, they were chosen despite the well known animosity between Ron Dennis and Max Mosley. All teams agreed to it.
Ferrari did not exactly blame their fuel pump issue on Mclaren, if you take the trouble to find Stefano Domenicali's quote he blames Ferrari's inability to fully understand the ECU yet. There was no "whining".
Comments about "know-nothing European asshats" are more telling of the author than the subjects.
03-19-2008, 09:41 PM
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AC, I've yet to hear anyone say the common ecu is a bad idea, only that a team participating in the series is manufacturing it for all the other teams to use
03-19-2008, 09:59 PM
#37
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“The system is designed to be highly configurable, and the team that learns how to configure it best will do better,”
Heh, I wonder which team learned to configure it quickest...?
Heh, I wonder which team learned to configure it quickest...?
03-19-2008, 10:04 PM
#38
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Should Ferrari have built one? Would that make it more fair?
Out of all the teams on the grid I would only pick Williams ahead of McLaren in terms of integrity before the spying **** storm. And the decision was before the scandal. Other teams did trust Ron Dennis to do it fairly.
03-19-2008, 10:12 PM
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Somewhere at Woking there is a Ferrari V-8 that MAC has learned the signature of this engine. The "universal ecu" then sends caboom command to engine with 12 laps left, then Ron receives many o' many constructor trophies and LH wins drivers championship.
Sidebar; the cars coming out of the corners twitching was great to see. Going to be an interesting season, first rain race w/o tc watch out.
Sidebar; the cars coming out of the corners twitching was great to see. Going to be an interesting season, first rain race w/o tc watch out.
03-19-2008, 10:27 PM
#41
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I remember watching Speed Channel last year and Bob Varsha talking about the dependability of the Ferrari race engine and the extraordinary number of consecutive races without an engine failure. I can't remember the number he quoted but I do remember it was exceptional. Maybe someone else can chime in on that. But if I was the head of Ferrari, I wouldn't want McLaren putting an ECU in my car. The rules committees will kill every racing venue sooner or later.
03-19-2008, 10:29 PM
#42
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03-19-2008, 10:34 PM
#43
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The choice of Microsoft puzzles me more....
by all accounts these new ECU's are stupid simple compared to the old ones so they should contain few secrets.
03-19-2008, 10:35 PM
#44
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I remember watching Speed Channel last year and Bob Varsha talking about the dependability of the Ferrari race engine and the extraordinary number of consecutive races without an engine failure. I can't remember the number he quoted but I do remember it was exceptional. Maybe someone else can chime in on that. But if I was the head of Ferrari, I wouldn't want McLaren putting an ECU in my car. The rules committees will kill every racing venue sooner or later.
03-19-2008, 10:36 PM
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I remember watching Speed Channel last year and Bob Varsha talking about the dependability of the Ferrari race engine and the extraordinary number of consecutive races without an engine failure. I can't remember the number he quoted but I do remember it was exceptional. ...