Rassel

George,
My comment was based on the "Two Feet in always applies". I don't agree with the "always applies" part. You seem to have a pretty stern view of things and I doubt I can change it. So I think you'd get more out of this if you speak to someone you trust as competent in the subject rather than a stranger on the interweb.

Looking at your video, what do you think was the cause and what would have happened if you went two feet in instead of correcting?

Ciao

himself

George,

I kinda like this one the best: http://p993.net/george/Ops.wmv

That little wave is too funny.

In the first spin, you can definitely see the opposite input on the wheels, but it just wasn't enough.

Oh, I'm still jealous you have FIOS.

-Tom

MJHanna

I would say he was not yet to the point of totally losing it. It was a correctable skid. There is a huge difference. It's no different than driving on snow. Hell, I drive that way all the time it's the only way to keep the squirrel on the wheel.

bobt993

George,

I think the answer to your question for a student is. "both feet in!!!!!!!" You can't possibly stay ahead of the car for a student by giving instructions on the next correction. (that would be the youtube post of the year: "left, no right, lift, gas, errrr, left?" The other situation I have run into is the impending "off" understeering to the edge of the track. In that case, I tell them where to drive by pointing in their field of vision(usually the grass) and slow the car down (easy on the gas). Get it going straight and when to get back onto the pavement. Both feet in is the safest and most likely the right call for a student spinning. We had 9 cars at Summit Point on a cold rainy day hit the inside tire wall of a turn from trying to save a spin last November.

TR6

I had a car right in front of me last year coming out of Wagon Wheel at MSR go into a spin off to the inside of the track. No worries, he was headed in a safe direction out of my way. Then suddenly, he changed directions and was rolling backwards across the track in front of me. I'm guessing he let off the brakes instead of keeping both feet in....

George A

Rassel, I think our only disagreement is on who and when the two feet in should always apply. If you have lost control, what are your options? In that video, the reason my back end came out was because there is a little bump right at the exit. As soon as I felt it, I knew the back end would get light, thus I steered into it. I knew it was going to happen before it started happening. Why would I have had both feet in that situation? I'm sure I could fill a whole hours worth of video of me being a little sideways. My car has always been a little lose.

My always applies to DE's. Not only because of the skill/experience level involved but also because of the traffic around those that lose it.

BTW, what would have happened here if I didn't get both feet in?

http://p993.net/george/Almost.wmv

G.

George A

Tom, as much as I can't stand Verizon, FIOS is beyond amazing.

Bob, that's exactly the way I feel about it also.

G.

Greg Smith

I think the misunderstanding is coming from "lost control". To some people as soon as the tail comes out just a tad they've lost control, others are able to counter steer and catch it without missing a beat. It just depends on the skill level of the driver. When you have lost control(meaning you no longer have control of the car) 2 feet in.

Here's a lap of TWS from last November, watch my hands in T2 and T12.
http://vimeo.com/438752

DRG13

Greg,

I didn't realize half of TWS was cobblestone..lol

bobt993

BTW, what would have happened here if I didn't get both feet in?

http://p993.net/george/Almost.wmv

G.[/QUOTE]


That would have hurt.

1. Car would have hooked up again and spun back to the left hitting the tire wall with your front right fender. Ask me how I know??????

Larry Herman

Once the car is beyong saving, locking the tires will keep it sliding in it's current direction and prevent it from hooking back up again and launching itself in a new, less desireable heading. Remember that the Armco is magnetic and the tires walls have a gravitational pull on your own tires. Only grinding away the rubber (flatspotting them as some call it) on your own tires will negate these forces and hopefully keep you away from them.

George A

Bob, that's an interesting observation. Sorry to hear about yours ...... I'm so thankful I didn't try.

G.

brucegre

I knew it! That explains what happened the one and only time I tried to be a hero (T1 at Mosport in the rain, man that inside wall comes up fast). At least now I can tell people it wasn't my fault! I didn't know that concrete was magnetic, I bet the evil track gremlins embedded magnets in it.

But seriously, you really can decide which direction you will go by going both feet in at the right time, and it sure helps everyone around you to see you moving in a straight line. Nothing worse than thinking you're past an incident and then all of a sudden the spinning car is autocrossing in front of you!

Larry Herman

It's the re-bar inside of it.

Rassel

Dear George, ()
I'm not on a crusade here and you have not accused me to being on one either. But it's good to know my intention.

What I reflected on is that a 2FI can at sometimes be to a disadvantage to clear up a situation. In my book the application of "always" does include situations where you not only quickly spun out, but rather also where you have ended up in a situation where you did not anticipate that you would end up in. And I presume the anticipation is to go through a track as quick and with the least of slip as possible.

In other words, where your driving input didn't live up to your expectations in reality. This is something, to reference, that many experience often when pushing for the limit. Just as well as a PPC driver as a pro racer. If you look at a Motec file for example of descent race driver, it's clearly that the car has been beyond its limits several times during a race, but where a 2FI situation was not the cure. I say this since a 2FI is quite a hefty solution to a problem that can sometimes be corrected with both throttle, careful braking, steering input and a 2FI can give disastrous consequences.

We can have a long argument about where the limits goes between different situations and skill levels and if your knowledge is on par with its appearance, I doubt we'd be really disagreeing on much more than just the details.

Perhaps this clarifies my view on things and explains why I commented on the "always" part.

Regards
M.