Who has a lift in their garage?
02-05-2008, 07:42 PM
#46
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I've got 2 of these in my garages with the integrated jacks so I can get the cars off of the wheels when I need to
Any chance you could post a pic? I'm very interested in how the access is to the wheel wells.
Thanks
Tristan
02-05-2008, 08:02 PM
#47
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Tristan,
Unfortunately, I can't take a picture of my lifts because I'm already out the door for Sebring. Here is the link to pictures of the folks that supplied the jacks: http://www.gregsmithequipment.com/Ph...PROJACK%2D4500
Unfortunately, I can't take a picture of my lifts because I'm already out the door for Sebring. Here is the link to pictures of the folks that supplied the jacks: http://www.gregsmithequipment.com/Ph...PROJACK%2D4500
02-06-2008, 01:24 AM
#49
Mr. Excitement
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Caution! Opinion to follow. Read at our own risk. Do not read before signing the waver. B.K.S.'s will do for now.
Good points to a 2 post lift.
By far the best for working on cars.
Takes up less space in your garage.
Most lift the car higher and have more clearance under then at full hight.
You can use the arms to lift motors up and out or up and onto a stand. You can also lift stuff from the backs of pickup trucks. This is is a no no off label use but sure is handy.
Bad points to a 2 post lift.
Suspension extended car storage.
You have to set the arms under the car in the right places for car storage.
Concrete requirements are often higher than for a four post.
Good points to a four post lift.
Drive on car storage with car sitting on wheels.
Some do not require any bolting to floor and can even be moved around.
Bad points to a four post lift.
Harder to work on cars. Trolly jacks or not the deck seems to be in the way every time you turn around.
Takes up a lot of space car on it on it or not.
Less free clearance under most them at full hight. The deck takes up space in use or not.
Some random notes from observations in home and dealership use.
Get a certified lift. Period. Next item.
99.9% of lift accidents are due to user error not a cheap lift or poor install. This means you are overall just about as likely to get bugsplatted under a Rotary or Mohawk as one from Harbor Fright. Its up to you.
Super thick concrete or piers under the posts of a 2 post are unneeded overkill. The fasteners are the weak point and fastener retention is key not slab thickness when over the manufactures recommendations. If the lift maker recommends 4 inches of 3000 PSI concrete you will be good to go if you follow the rules. Check for what is called for and don't cheat. 6 inches of 3000 PSI concrete is not better than 4 inches of 4000 PSI. Install correctly on rated slab and have fun. There is a large safety factor built into the recommendations. Keep crack control joints away from the lift bolt points.
Shopping tips, in no order. Specifications change all the time so check the specs this prattle might be dated and is incomplete generalizations only.
Power. Look at the power requirements. 120 volt units are often very slow to cycle to full hight. Smaller motor = smaller pump. This might not be a big deal to most. Even at 120 volt a lift still might require a dedicated line to be run. Go with 220 volt if you can.
Safety locks. Look at the locking and release methods used. Some four post lifts use air pressure to unlock the releases. No compressor or air pressure = No mova da car but the good point is you can stand in one place and lower your car. Some make you wander all around the lift unlocking at each post. On a 4 post this is a royal pain. A small point of use compressor is all you need if you don't have compressed air already.
Some 2 post lifts have a release that is right next to the hydraulic release. This is preferred IMO. Some such as my Bend-Pac use a release on each post that has to be pulled before the lift can be lowered. Not a big deal on a 2 post but one more step to forget now and then.
Stroke. Look at the pad hight at full down and full up. Some lifts have tall min pad heights and short full heights. Short lifts suck and so does having to jack your sports car up to get it on the lift. For some reason some Rotary lifts have short full hight. Bend-Pac is better than most at this. My Bend-Pac runs from 4" pad hight to 6' 6" pad hight. You can walk under the arms without clipping your head if you are 6'2" This is one of the primary reasons I got the one I did.
Clear floor or clear overhead. All 2 and 4 post lifts use some method for the rams to stay synchronized. Some, Mohawk is an example, use a hydraulic system to do this and all that crosses over is a hose or steel line that can be run on or inside the ceiling. Most use cables and pulleys that counter pull on each ram keeping them even. How this is done on a four post is not too important as they don't get in the way but there are things to consider with the 2 post lifts. The cables can run overhead or under a metal plate on the floor. Overhead leaves the floor clear but increases the ceiling hight requirements quite a bit. Overhead also sets a max vehicle hight for full lift extension. With a floor plate your ceiling it the max hight. (Unless a buddy runs his 914 with the front trunk lid propped open then the max hight can be exceeded by simply protruding through the drywall. Don't ask...) A tall truck with a ladder rack might mean the lift cannot be run to full high and you are now doing a Quasimoto imitation. Cables under a floor plate means you have a bump to drive over and roll oil catch tanks and tranny jacks and the like over. A small irritation at times including when you sweep up but not insurmountable.
Commercial day in and day out shop? Tall overhead or in-ground is the way to go. Home shop with less than 14 feet ceilings a floor plate system might be a better option.
Four that make up the most and only one persons opinion.
No name or re-badged imports. Run. In the future you might/will have a hard time getting parts or service. Many US lift companies are getting all or parts of lifts made off shore to their specs.
Bend-Pac. OK fit and finish. Most are certified, good bang for the buck. Home shop pick if money is better spent on the car.
Rotary. My pick for a service shop under money making use. Check total heights some are too short.
Mohawk. Bulky and massive overkill in a home shop. No overhead bar or floor plate is very nice. If you got the bucks they are well made and little bad can be said about them. As with some of the Rotary's check the min and max before purchase.
At work I have 150 lifts to deal with. Some Rotary in ground, some Challenger in ground, some Rotary 2 post and four 4 post alignment rack type lifts. The Rotary's are the least problematic overall and the new method in ground Rotary's are bulletproof.
At home I have the above mentioned Bend-Pac 2 post floor plate type in a shop with a 10 foot 6 ceiling. 12 foot would be better but I can run the lift to the stops with a 911, 912 or 944 on it.
My home shop is 30' deep and I was able to move my lift back a bit to clear a standard door. I planed on a loft for bulky little used stuff like 60 inch TV sets over the door so built the door tracks to run under the loft. Some standard doors can be reworked so the door track follows the ceiling line.
Gratuitous shop pix. Bonus points if you can guess the movie.
Good points to a 2 post lift.
By far the best for working on cars.
Takes up less space in your garage.
Most lift the car higher and have more clearance under then at full hight.
You can use the arms to lift motors up and out or up and onto a stand. You can also lift stuff from the backs of pickup trucks. This is is a no no off label use but sure is handy.
Bad points to a 2 post lift.
Suspension extended car storage.
You have to set the arms under the car in the right places for car storage.
Concrete requirements are often higher than for a four post.
Good points to a four post lift.
Drive on car storage with car sitting on wheels.
Some do not require any bolting to floor and can even be moved around.
Bad points to a four post lift.
Harder to work on cars. Trolly jacks or not the deck seems to be in the way every time you turn around.
Takes up a lot of space car on it on it or not.
Less free clearance under most them at full hight. The deck takes up space in use or not.
Some random notes from observations in home and dealership use.
Get a certified lift. Period. Next item.
99.9% of lift accidents are due to user error not a cheap lift or poor install. This means you are overall just about as likely to get bugsplatted under a Rotary or Mohawk as one from Harbor Fright. Its up to you.
Super thick concrete or piers under the posts of a 2 post are unneeded overkill. The fasteners are the weak point and fastener retention is key not slab thickness when over the manufactures recommendations. If the lift maker recommends 4 inches of 3000 PSI concrete you will be good to go if you follow the rules. Check for what is called for and don't cheat. 6 inches of 3000 PSI concrete is not better than 4 inches of 4000 PSI. Install correctly on rated slab and have fun. There is a large safety factor built into the recommendations. Keep crack control joints away from the lift bolt points.
Shopping tips, in no order. Specifications change all the time so check the specs this prattle might be dated and is incomplete generalizations only.
Power. Look at the power requirements. 120 volt units are often very slow to cycle to full hight. Smaller motor = smaller pump. This might not be a big deal to most. Even at 120 volt a lift still might require a dedicated line to be run. Go with 220 volt if you can.
Safety locks. Look at the locking and release methods used. Some four post lifts use air pressure to unlock the releases. No compressor or air pressure = No mova da car but the good point is you can stand in one place and lower your car. Some make you wander all around the lift unlocking at each post. On a 4 post this is a royal pain. A small point of use compressor is all you need if you don't have compressed air already.
Some 2 post lifts have a release that is right next to the hydraulic release. This is preferred IMO. Some such as my Bend-Pac use a release on each post that has to be pulled before the lift can be lowered. Not a big deal on a 2 post but one more step to forget now and then.
Stroke. Look at the pad hight at full down and full up. Some lifts have tall min pad heights and short full heights. Short lifts suck and so does having to jack your sports car up to get it on the lift. For some reason some Rotary lifts have short full hight. Bend-Pac is better than most at this. My Bend-Pac runs from 4" pad hight to 6' 6" pad hight. You can walk under the arms without clipping your head if you are 6'2" This is one of the primary reasons I got the one I did.
Clear floor or clear overhead. All 2 and 4 post lifts use some method for the rams to stay synchronized. Some, Mohawk is an example, use a hydraulic system to do this and all that crosses over is a hose or steel line that can be run on or inside the ceiling. Most use cables and pulleys that counter pull on each ram keeping them even. How this is done on a four post is not too important as they don't get in the way but there are things to consider with the 2 post lifts. The cables can run overhead or under a metal plate on the floor. Overhead leaves the floor clear but increases the ceiling hight requirements quite a bit. Overhead also sets a max vehicle hight for full lift extension. With a floor plate your ceiling it the max hight. (Unless a buddy runs his 914 with the front trunk lid propped open then the max hight can be exceeded by simply protruding through the drywall. Don't ask...) A tall truck with a ladder rack might mean the lift cannot be run to full high and you are now doing a Quasimoto imitation. Cables under a floor plate means you have a bump to drive over and roll oil catch tanks and tranny jacks and the like over. A small irritation at times including when you sweep up but not insurmountable.
Commercial day in and day out shop? Tall overhead or in-ground is the way to go. Home shop with less than 14 feet ceilings a floor plate system might be a better option.
Four that make up the most and only one persons opinion.
No name or re-badged imports. Run. In the future you might/will have a hard time getting parts or service. Many US lift companies are getting all or parts of lifts made off shore to their specs.
Bend-Pac. OK fit and finish. Most are certified, good bang for the buck. Home shop pick if money is better spent on the car.
Rotary. My pick for a service shop under money making use. Check total heights some are too short.
Mohawk. Bulky and massive overkill in a home shop. No overhead bar or floor plate is very nice. If you got the bucks they are well made and little bad can be said about them. As with some of the Rotary's check the min and max before purchase.
At work I have 150 lifts to deal with. Some Rotary in ground, some Challenger in ground, some Rotary 2 post and four 4 post alignment rack type lifts. The Rotary's are the least problematic overall and the new method in ground Rotary's are bulletproof.
At home I have the above mentioned Bend-Pac 2 post floor plate type in a shop with a 10 foot 6 ceiling. 12 foot would be better but I can run the lift to the stops with a 911, 912 or 944 on it.
My home shop is 30' deep and I was able to move my lift back a bit to clear a standard door. I planed on a loft for bulky little used stuff like 60 inch TV sets over the door so built the door tracks to run under the loft. Some standard doors can be reworked so the door track follows the ceiling line.
Gratuitous shop pix. Bonus points if you can guess the movie.
Last edited by kurt M; 07-26-2013 at 09:54 AM.
02-06-2008, 06:51 AM
#50
YUp, Cheap will kill you.
ANSI Certified and OSHA approved. I have a guy who services my lift once per year and he told me of some stupid human tricks he's seen in dealing with owner-installed cheapie lifts. make sure your lift has all the controls at one location. I've seen some lifts where you have to run from post to post to lelease the safety. You want to be able to control the lift from one central location that doesn't put you in harms way.
Mike
ANSI Certified and OSHA approved. I have a guy who services my lift once per year and he told me of some stupid human tricks he's seen in dealing with owner-installed cheapie lifts. make sure your lift has all the controls at one location. I've seen some lifts where you have to run from post to post to lelease the safety. You want to be able to control the lift from one central location that doesn't put you in harms way.
Mike
02-06-2008, 08:24 AM
#51
Mr. Excitement
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
From the data I have seen so far it is not Cheap that kills you it is "Stupid" or better said "Human error" that does you in. #1 reason cars fall off lifts by a wide margin is improper loading of the car. Catastrophic failure of the lift itself even the cheap import knock off stuff is rare. I have been in a local shop where all the lifts locks and arm retainers (the device that keeps the arms from swinging when the lift is up) had been intentionally bypassed for ease of use. 1. Lift a car and have only 3 arms in solid contact which is not uncommon at all. 2. Bump the non contacting arm and the non working arm retainer lets the arm swing out a bit. 3. Take wheel of diag end and tip car off lift. For some reason 4 post lifts don’t seem to be much safer as the Human element negates the simpler loading of a 4 post. Cheap lifts tend to have more problems but they are more likely pain in the *** stuff not fall on you stuff. Certified lifts are tested to not have a catastrophic failure at 3 times rated load.
Last edited by kurt M; 02-06-2008 at 08:45 AM.
02-06-2008, 10:02 AM
#52
Rennlist
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Kurt that is some garage, and I cannot believe how organized it is.
Wait a minute? What's that noise I hear?
Run for it Kurt...
The **** Police are coming for you!
Wait a minute? What's that noise I hear?
Run for it Kurt...
The **** Police are coming for you!
__________________
Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
02-06-2008, 10:21 AM
#53
Rennlist Member
However, this quote just disturbs me. I have a nice Rotary lift, but this means I my Rotary won't protect me from my own stupidty!! All I can say is damn it!!
02-06-2008, 06:41 PM
#57
Rennlist Member
God, talk about garage pornography. whew!!!!
We're about to start our garage project. The surveyors are about to come and stake it out. In our town, we're only allowed 600square feet for detached structures so we're planning 13 foot ceilings. Sounds like the bend pack 4 poster is pretty solid for 80% parking and 20% wrenching.
I don't have a prayer on the stupidity department, however. Maybe I should warn the emergency room in advance.....
We're about to start our garage project. The surveyors are about to come and stake it out. In our town, we're only allowed 600square feet for detached structures so we're planning 13 foot ceilings. Sounds like the bend pack 4 poster is pretty solid for 80% parking and 20% wrenching.
I don't have a prayer on the stupidity department, however. Maybe I should warn the emergency room in advance.....
02-07-2008, 08:52 AM
#60
Rennlist Member
i have a stupid question ... i would rather have a two post lift just because i think it would be eisier working under the car etc...
1. how bad is it for the cars supension to " hang" if i want it to store the vehicle on the lift
2. why couldnt some type of ramp be made so when car is stored for long time car would be on "C" channels so supension would not " hang" there has to be way to lock in ramps on a four post lift
any ideas
1. how bad is it for the cars supension to " hang" if i want it to store the vehicle on the lift
2. why couldnt some type of ramp be made so when car is stored for long time car would be on "C" channels so supension would not " hang" there has to be way to lock in ramps on a four post lift
any ideas