garrett376

I got an email yesterday from the race licensing group for PCA, with the following statement:

"Also, after June 1, 2008, a head and neck restraint meeting either the standards of SFI 38.1 or FIA 8858 will be required."

Since the scrutineers at each event seem to hold the final opinion on the rules, is the ISAAC not allowed after 6/2008? It meets the crash standards of 38.1.

Gary R.

Just going by the quote you posted (which states SFI 38.1 standards must be met after 6/1/08) and your statement that Isaac meets 38.1 why wouldn't it be fine?

garrett376

Well, I figured I'd run it by the group here as there are scrutineers that are on the 'List, and they hold the final word come race day

ltc

I would check with ISAAC directly, but IIRC, the ISAAC exceeds SFI38.1 crash test performance, but is NOT SFI 38.1 certified (for reasons OTHER than crash test results).

800# gorillas.....got to love them.

chrisp

I think what they are after is an SFI 38.1 certified device....but if that's what they want why don't they say that? There is definitely a difference between certification and meeting the standard.

garrett376

Yes... that's why I decided to just bring the 800lb gorilla into the forefront, as it has yet to be discussed directly!!!

ltc

If a device meets ALL of the requirements of a standard, then it marked as such. It's the "label" they're after, that's all.

Certification and homologation isn't "a la carte"; it's all or nothing.

Tether vs damper..... a true technical no brainer ..... although it was never going to be a technical decision.

chrisp

ltc, the marking is the certification. There could be a product that meets the standard but isn't marked by the organization. An example of this is roll bar padding. You can buy the dense FIA style or SFI style without certification tags for less $$.

I know what we're all dancing around here is whether ISAAC will be allowed (I have one and would love to use it) but even as quoted by PCA, the ISAAC doesn't comply. It meets the energy absorption standard but not some of the other SFI standards namely the single point release.

Veloce Raptor

Wow.

PCA club racing finally moves into the 21st century.

Next step: ban roll bars & bolt-in cages.

Mark in Baltimore

For 2008, they essentially did. All cars with new log books have to have cages. Current cars with roll bars can run until 2009 with the bar. After that, no more bars in club racing.

RedlineMan

Hmmmm...

As Lew said, The Isaac EXCEEDS all dynamic crash standards for SFI 38.1, but it DOES NOT meet the ceritfication requirement of a single point release. Therefore it does not meet the standard, and I would assume that it does not meet PCA specs as a result.

Have not they learned by now that loose wording is an open door? What a poorly worded edict!!!!!!!

How can you and get the info you need when it is written so poorly????

SundayDriver

Perhaps (and this is pure speculation) the rule was written this way to allow SFI certified devices where the specific unit lacks the sticker. HANS was around was before the standard and there are many HANS devices out there without the sticker.

I disagree. The evidence is that the damage to you in a frontal crash is due to hear travel, not velocity or deceleration rate. I would concede that a damper should be no worse than a tether, but there is no significant evidence that dampers prevent injuries that would have occurred with a tether. If something is adequate to prevent an injury, a design that is more than adequate does not imply less injury.

924RACR

I thought it was due to loads (forces), not travel aka displacement or position.

I agree with your second statement, but does that not presume that all impacts are the same? Having a device that is more than merely adequate to prevent injury at, say, 35g does imply, IMO, that it has a greater chance of preventing injury in more severe impacts than a device that is merely adequate at 35g. The latter might only reduce the severity of, rather than prevent, injury in more severe impacts.

Regardless, this thread is asking about compliance to SFI or FIA standards. As ltc said - it's all or nothing. I can't see any way to interpret this statement to allow use of the ISAAC. Sorry.

That's why I have a hard time suggesting their purchase to anyone anymore, even though I use one myself - I cannot help but see a definite lifetime to the usefulness of the product, with no significant 38.1 support from the manufacturer in sight...

Veloce Raptor

Good. What about the bolt-in cages? Still legal or not?

Mark in Baltimore

Yup, still allowed.