CGT crash settled at $4.5M
10-23-2007, 09:42 PM
#106
Nordschleife Master
I'll tell you what this means to me: I won't be giving any students rides with me. It is just not worth the potential risk to my family.
And I've said it before and I'll say it again: there are not 25 people in all of PCA club racing, and none in the DE ranks, that I think are currently qualified to pilot a 600hp supercar anywhere near the limit. I highly doubt that Ben was one of them. That has nothing to do with wings or inherent design flaws, but rather that really high hp cars require great skill to push to the limit. Just because you can afford something doesn't mean you should buy it.
And I've said it before and I'll say it again: there are not 25 people in all of PCA club racing, and none in the DE ranks, that I think are currently qualified to pilot a 600hp supercar anywhere near the limit. I highly doubt that Ben was one of them. That has nothing to do with wings or inherent design flaws, but rather that really high hp cars require great skill to push to the limit. Just because you can afford something doesn't mean you should buy it.
10-23-2007, 10:01 PM
#108
Rennlist Member
10-23-2007, 10:10 PM
#109
Lifetime Rennlist Member
When I first got my Radical, DJ (who also got one) and I had an attorney put together an additional release. We were about to give people rides in cars that were much faster than anything most had ever experienced. They were open cockpit, and much lower and lighter than the other cars on the track. It had the usual waiver language but basically said that the rider understood this ride and car were much more dangerous than other cars and that they could be injured or killed in this car.
Three things stood out:
1) Not one person ever objected to this additional waiver or passed on taking the ride because of this.
2) Almost no one read any part of it before signing.
3) No one ever admitted to being at all scared in these rides. They should have been.
Three things stood out:
1) Not one person ever objected to this additional waiver or passed on taking the ride because of this.
2) Almost no one read any part of it before signing.
3) No one ever admitted to being at all scared in these rides. They should have been.
10-23-2007, 10:13 PM
#111
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
When we get in the passenger seat of another person's car, we consciously or not, make certain assumptions about the safety of the car and the abilities of the driver. For example, if you get into an instructor's or advanced student's car, you have accepted that the car was thoroughly inspected prior to the event and properly set up for the environment it is going to run. You probably assumed that if the driver was having problems with the car, he/she would have informed you. Finally, you likely have developed the belief that the driver possesses certain skills and knowledge about his car and the track.
In the end, a driver that takes a passenger is accepting responsibility for the safety of that passenger. IMHO, this is why Ben's estate has the greatest share of the settlement.
In the end, a driver that takes a passenger is accepting responsibility for the safety of that passenger. IMHO, this is why Ben's estate has the greatest share of the settlement.
Nobody knows what Ben's passenger knew about Ben's driving or the car that day. While the driver has responsibility for his passenger, the passenger also has to be responsible for themselves. Anytime you do something that requires the use of a helmet, you have to understand there is some sort of risk.
10-23-2007, 10:14 PM
#112
Rennlist Member
I always tell people who have to sign a waiver that it's less enforceable if you don't read it. That's why some waivers require all the key items to be separately intialled in addition to the whole thing being signed.
When I gave that advice to my wife when we arrived at the birthing suite I got a really dirty look from one of the nurses. I told her it's just a joke, and it was, as it were.
When I gave that advice to my wife when we arrived at the birthing suite I got a really dirty look from one of the nurses. I told her it's just a joke, and it was, as it were.
10-23-2007, 10:21 PM
#113
Race Car
Dudes that make millions have gobs of life insurance. They are usually pretty well covered for lost income. Not placing any value judgements on this, just making an observation.
10-23-2007, 10:24 PM
#114
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
The first time I ever went skydiving, we had to sign the "injury and/or death" waiver, and nobody read it. The instructor then picked up a copy of the waiver and said "You guys are about to jump out of an airplane with a group of people you don't know and you didn't read this (holding the waiver). You guys are idiots."
For some reason, people trust that other people know what they are doing, and are able to convince themselves that nothing will happen to them.
For some reason, people trust that other people know what they are doing, and are able to convince themselves that nothing will happen to them.
10-23-2007, 10:26 PM
#115
Race Car
Nobody knows what Ben's passenger knew about Ben's driving or the car that day. While the driver has responsibility for his passenger, the passenger also has to be responsible for themselves. Anytime you do something that requires the use of a helmet, you have to understand there is some sort of risk.
10-23-2007, 11:01 PM
#116
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Tampa
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waivers are worth very little
i didn't understand, he spoke too fast, english is not my native language, english is not his native language, he spoke to fast, i signed at 6amm, i was drunk, i was rushed, i was pressured, didn't have my glasses, had wrong glasses ; ecetera gd ecetera
jack
i didn't understand, he spoke too fast, english is not my native language, english is not his native language, he spoke to fast, i signed at 6amm, i was drunk, i was rushed, i was pressured, didn't have my glasses, had wrong glasses ; ecetera gd ecetera
jack
10-23-2007, 11:12 PM
#117
Race Director
I drove at an open lapping day this summer that did not require helmets. Most people wore them anyway, but some did not. During the afternoon, I had another driver (that has never met me before) asked me to take him for a ride and I agreed. He then proceeded to get into my car without a helmet. When I asked him where his helmet was, he said "I know you're not going to crash". My reply "Well, that makes one of us. Go get a helmet".
Nobody knows what Ben's passenger knew about Ben's driving or the car that day. While the driver has responsibility for his passenger, the passenger also has to be responsible for themselves. Anytime you do something that requires the use of a helmet, you have to understand there is some sort of risk.
Nobody knows what Ben's passenger knew about Ben's driving or the car that day. While the driver has responsibility for his passenger, the passenger also has to be responsible for themselves. Anytime you do something that requires the use of a helmet, you have to understand there is some sort of risk.
If I could fit in your car Stacy I'd be wearing my helmet.
10-23-2007, 11:23 PM
#118
Rennlist Member
When I first got my Radical, DJ (who also got one) and I had an attorney put together an additional release. We were about to give people rides in cars that were much faster than anything most had ever experienced. They were open cockpit, and much lower and lighter than the other cars on the track. It had the usual waiver language but basically said that the rider understood this ride and car were much more dangerous than other cars and that they could be injured or killed in this car.
Three things stood out:
1) Not one person ever objected to this additional waiver or passed on taking the ride because of this.
2) Almost no one read any part of it before signing.
3) No one ever admitted to being at all scared in these rides. They should have been.
Three things stood out:
1) Not one person ever objected to this additional waiver or passed on taking the ride because of this.
2) Almost no one read any part of it before signing.
3) No one ever admitted to being at all scared in these rides. They should have been.
10-23-2007, 11:34 PM
#120
Lifetime Rennlist Member
Love #3! I haven't had anyone admit it either. Lots of mumbling about how it's life altering. One smaller guy I took out with some reasonably fresh tires, I was able to let him know that he had probably gone for a lap quicker than 99+% anyone else had ever been around the track. Even with that ALWAYS have to be aware who's in the left seat (right hand drive).