The 996 is a poor track car
#16
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I'm sure this post is designed to create debate, but this is exactly the question that I am dealing with. Do I make the jump to a 996 or go with an air cooled 911?
The '99's look like they are ones to stay away from, but a 2000 - 2002 might be a great club racer. GTB could be a class for stripped out 996's and develop into a psuedo "spec" class. Can't really do too much to the motor and as long as a minimum weight is specified, it might all be suspension.
You can pick up a decent 2000-2002 for $35K and under, which makes it even the more interesting.
The '99's look like they are ones to stay away from, but a 2000 - 2002 might be a great club racer. GTB could be a class for stripped out 996's and develop into a psuedo "spec" class. Can't really do too much to the motor and as long as a minimum weight is specified, it might all be suspension.
You can pick up a decent 2000-2002 for $35K and under, which makes it even the more interesting.
#17
The 996,997, Boxsters, and Caymans all have the "Subaru motor" which is not a dry sump race engine. Only the GT2, GT3 and twin turbo still have the true dry sump motor that is a descendant of the LeMans winning GT1 engine. All 964 and 993 have this same motor sans water cooled heads.
Nick
Nick
#18
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Please remind all of the teams that have competed with the 996 and now with the 997 in GAC that they cannot hope to finish a race with the poor wet sumped M967/97 motors.
#19
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Are there provisions that can mitigate the risk? i.e. Accusump system, etc.?
This is the discussion that is prompting the question:
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...referrerid=967
I've seen many 996's on the track over the years and I've known of the potential for oil starvation. However, I don't actually know anyone that has run into the issue.
In coming clean, I know the poster in the other thread (although, I didn't know he was going to start a thread here too). I helped him find the car he's having an issue with and he called me to discuss the problem. He's also called around to a number of shops around the country. The statements and title of the thread were intentional to bait responses a bit.
The real basis for the statements in my original post are not mine necessarily but rather the result of some subsequent discussions with very reputable (at a national level) shops. I wanted honest opinions here and, to the greatest extent possible - didn't want to bias the waters of those responding. Thus, this fact wasn't mentioned previously. I found some of the comments coming from these shops to be very interesting, if not enlightening and disturbing. A couple established members here seem to echo those thoughts while others clearly discount them. Thus, it has prompted more questions - for my own information, if nothing else.
When all is said and done (to trackjunky's point), before someone makes a decision to rebuild/replace an engine, I guess the honest question has to be asked and answered as to whether this is truly the correct platform to do so with? From a selfish standpoint, even though my car has the engine in the correct location , it does raise questions for me about any similar potential for issues.
Last edited by J-RAD; 09-06-2007 at 05:35 PM.
#20
#23
Tracking a car means you'll be going fast enough on pavement for it to be considered tracking in the first place. If you're asking these questions, then you can probably drive around the block and save yourself the trouble. Definitely need a wet sump for that.
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#24
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Well, read my answer in his thread. I have six years now tracking my 996, and I have several friends who do the same, with no problems. One driver's woes do not make a whole line of cars inadequate.
#25
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Bill, the 996s are great cars and the well setup ones are tough to beat. If I were in your position now, I would wait for the 2008 PCA classes to be finalized. From the looks of it though, a prepared RSA like mine will be at the top of it's class, and with 265 RWHP and 2950 lbs (with driver) slots in nicely to NASAs GTS3 class. A 3.6L 996 maxed out to the limit of the stock rules should be competitive in the new classes too.
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Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
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Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
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1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
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Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
#26
Racer
Thread Starter
It's not one driver's woes that promped that statement. It's the fact that those statements came from shops he's contacted - that's where the concern stems from. He spent a fair amount of time looking at various cars that he could dedicate to DE (including 944's and 968's) before deciding on this one. After two events (well, one and half) with the car, he ran into this unfortunate issue. While calling around to various shops in attempt to figure out how to handle the issue, he heard statements similar to those in my original post. I'm guessing that you could understand how comments such as these, especially to someone that is just starting to get pretty involved in the sport, would be concerning. I've been doing DE's for several years and this was news to me as well (but what do I know, I drove a SC and a Boxster for crying out loud).
He's not bashing anyone or anything. He's simply trying to get a better understanding of the car and it's potential limitationsand options to consider before dropping thousands more into it. Surely, we can all respect that.
Larry:
What are your thoughts or knowledge with supplemental oil systems? Do you use one? Do you know others that do? Has this been a concern for you?
paradisenb:
You made mention of baffling the oil pan. Seems you may be knowledgable on the issue. I'd be interested in knowing more about this.
Last edited by J-RAD; 09-06-2007 at 02:26 AM.
#27
bill...i was thinkin there was something bout the '99s that made them a bit more desirable as a track candidate vs the 00-01...but what do i know, i will have to defer to the experts...good luck with your search
#29
larry...any class diff in the RSA vs a reg C2? also for someone like Bill wouldnt it be better to start with a cheaper C2 since u r gonna dump money into it? i have an RSA but seems to be best value to keep it as a dual purpose car (DE/street)...if i was to go to track only car i would think it would make sense to sell the RSA and find a C2 project? any thoughts for me and Bill? thanks
#30
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I have one one the first 996's in Canada ( if not the first) It is a non sunroof coupe. extremely rare. It Now currently has 179800 kms on it and is a dry as a bone and has never been apart. It was owned by a DE instructor so most of the kms are track. I am also a new DE instructor and i have tracked it now for 3 years with R-compounds,suspension set up, seats, rollbar etc... It is a fantastic track car if you take care of it!
I would just like a little more power now!
I would just like a little more power now!
Congrats on becoming a new instructor. I saw you and your car the very first morning (at the gas station) and found it weird indeed that you didn't have a sunroof without being a GT3. Looks really good for 180K km.