Why did you crash or go off track??
#31
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My very first "off" was at MSR (1.7 course) in Wagon Wheel. Carried a little too much speed into the wagon wheel and stayed steady on the throttle coming out of it to track out. Car was pushing but I was so scared of lifting off the throttle even the slightest after hearing all the 'don't lift' 911 stories, that it just pushed right to the edge of the track with me keeping the throttle steady the whole way. Fortunately, it was no biggie. Just straightened the wheel and drove off straight once I knew it was going off the edge. With hindsight, I knew I needed to learn to modulate the throttle to get the car to rotate if it is pushing too much. Still working on that one...
#32
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Moroso checking In:
Chasing a friend doing what I thought was the same thing exiting T6 and whammo I counted 3 pirouettes leaving the track and finding what I think is the only grass/sand at Moroso as it dumped sand in the passenger side of the car. Chest heaving knowing that I spun at what I think is the only place without jersey barriers or H20 or both. This was driver-error but to this day I am not sure what happened not a good thing. Others suggested debris on the track but I humbly submit I am not that good. At the end of the day I was likely too hot and exceeded the coefficient of grip. However I did find the mussles in my backside I did not know I had.
Chasing a friend doing what I thought was the same thing exiting T6 and whammo I counted 3 pirouettes leaving the track and finding what I think is the only grass/sand at Moroso as it dumped sand in the passenger side of the car. Chest heaving knowing that I spun at what I think is the only place without jersey barriers or H20 or both. This was driver-error but to this day I am not sure what happened not a good thing. Others suggested debris on the track but I humbly submit I am not that good. At the end of the day I was likely too hot and exceeded the coefficient of grip. However I did find the mussles in my backside I did not know I had.
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#33
Drifting
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Christian-
Funny you mentioned those muscles...I recently discovered them as well.... :-I BTW, saw your car at Zotz yesterday morning as I was dropping mine off.
Oh, and my off-track incident was a SUPER late braking episode coming into T-4 at RRR...around I went. 5-tons of dirt inside the car followed.
Funny you mentioned those muscles...I recently discovered them as well.... :-I BTW, saw your car at Zotz yesterday morning as I was dropping mine off.
Oh, and my off-track incident was a SUPER late braking episode coming into T-4 at RRR...around I went. 5-tons of dirt inside the car followed.
#35
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I've been off many times but this was the most exciting:
MSR-Cresson heading into Rattlesnake off the front straight. I had done 2 morning sessions in my Factory Five Cobra and had just jumped into the 911. It must have been lap 2 (first hot lap), I entered the braking zone, guessing at about 115mph?, and jammed on the brakes. The back end immediately came around on me and I began to spin CCW. I spun off the track to the right, crossed over a patch of grass, and ended up on the pavement on the other side of the turn, basically bypassing the first right hand turn. I was facing the right direction and the engine was still running when I came to a stop so I put it back in gear and slowly finished my lap to pit out. I then returned to the garage to change my suit and nomex undies.![Smilie](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Root cause: The brakes in the Cobra require you to really stand on them to make them work, full force every time. The 911 has hand of God stopping power. I did not adjust well to the difference (understatement) and instantly locked up the front. I still have trouble driving the two cars back to back and am VERY cautious now when I do.
MSR-Cresson heading into Rattlesnake off the front straight. I had done 2 morning sessions in my Factory Five Cobra and had just jumped into the 911. It must have been lap 2 (first hot lap), I entered the braking zone, guessing at about 115mph?, and jammed on the brakes. The back end immediately came around on me and I began to spin CCW. I spun off the track to the right, crossed over a patch of grass, and ended up on the pavement on the other side of the turn, basically bypassing the first right hand turn. I was facing the right direction and the engine was still running when I came to a stop so I put it back in gear and slowly finished my lap to pit out. I then returned to the garage to change my suit and nomex undies.
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Root cause: The brakes in the Cobra require you to really stand on them to make them work, full force every time. The 911 has hand of God stopping power. I did not adjust well to the difference (understatement) and instantly locked up the front. I still have trouble driving the two cars back to back and am VERY cautious now when I do.
#36
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Last April 2, Lime Rock. Track was green from winter shutdown. I tracked out too far going onto No Name Straight and it was a bit slick out there and the assend started to go out very quickly. I counter steered but there was no saving it and around I went into the infield, both feet in. Lucky for me the damage was a rear control arm, slightly bent wheel, major scuff on the plastic bumper cover. And lots of sand and gravel in the car and on top of the belly pans.
#37
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Wow, where do I start?
-got rammed by a ****-up named Tom Nastasi (running in a higher class) on a restart when I was in a top 5 position;
-the off --I ended up atop a blind hill facing the rest of the field coming at me at full bore--was delightfully broadcast on national TV, as was my subsequent locking front wheels under hard braking trying to get back to the pits to assess damage (turns out the ABS was destroyed in the impact, which I discovered as I slid into the sand trap)
-at another race in another series, got used 3 different times by 2 different racers as a brake marker; 2 of those sent me into the gravel; one of these required a tow truck pull out
-other small offs were due usually to me running out of talent
-except for the time my radiator expired as I entered a fast off camber downhill left hander
-and the time I corded a tire in a very fast sweeper
-got rammed by a ****-up named Tom Nastasi (running in a higher class) on a restart when I was in a top 5 position;
-the off --I ended up atop a blind hill facing the rest of the field coming at me at full bore--was delightfully broadcast on national TV, as was my subsequent locking front wheels under hard braking trying to get back to the pits to assess damage (turns out the ABS was destroyed in the impact, which I discovered as I slid into the sand trap)
-at another race in another series, got used 3 different times by 2 different racers as a brake marker; 2 of those sent me into the gravel; one of these required a tow truck pull out
-other small offs were due usually to me running out of talent
-except for the time my radiator expired as I entered a fast off camber downhill left hander
-and the time I corded a tire in a very fast sweeper
Last edited by Veloce Raptor; 08-16-2007 at 09:43 PM.
#39
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Not glamorous at all...
Huge lesson learned...this doesn't apply to me int his case but as an experienced racer told me one time, if you don't go off every once in a while you aren't trying hard enough.
- Went off at Putnam
- 1st lap of 1st race...turn 9
- took my eyes off the road looking for the guy behind me
- went to deep
- got into the marbles
- backed into a tree
- got a 13
Huge lesson learned...this doesn't apply to me int his case but as an experienced racer told me one time, if you don't go off every once in a while you aren't trying hard enough.
#40
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My first DE at MSR Cresson I spun at big bend. I apexed too early and went two wheels off at track out. I was a little too aggressive trying to get back on to the track and around I went several times across the track and onto the other side. The car was fine, the ego bruised, and the inside of my car was filthy from all the dirt and grass flying in. I'm still finding grass inside my car and that was a year and a half ago.
#41
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Originally Posted by Greg Smith
... a turtle jumped out at me. [ryan]Just remember, always blame something besides the driver, usually the car.[/ryan]
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#42
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Originally Posted by JackOlsen
As a side note, there's an understandable human tendency to equate the seriousness of the mistake with the cost of the consequences. If we do a 360 but stay on the pavement, or even spin off onto some nice clear run-off, it's good fun and part of the learning experience.
In one of my last session, I drove a new track for the first time having been driving on track for 3 years now. My instructor commented that, while I had entered one corner too hot and left braking too late once etc. he had no qualms about signing off on me to got solo (and asked me to return for the spring instructor school) as I was immediately able to identify and verbalize to him what happened and, more importantly, why.
I have had only 2 spins, both times I stayed on track and both times with an instructor in the car.
The first was in my first year of driving in turn 4 of AMP (near Halifax) which is an off camber, down hill turn after a short straight. It was near the end of the day and I was tired, I missed my brake point, went in too hot, and lifted <noob>.
The second time was mechanical. It was in turn 5 of Race City (in Calgary) which is a flat left hander. I had just had the car aligned to RS spec. so sat a bit lower. My MPS tire rubbed on the oil line enough to develop a slow leak so when I did the corner hard, I did not have enough tire pressure to keep the tire on the rim. I almost managed to save it but, when it looked like we were going off I just put both feet in and stopped 6" short of the track edge. I have since fitted longer studs and spacers and it has not happened again.
Marc
Last edited by Marc Shaw; 08-17-2007 at 12:32 AM. Reason: added info
#43
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While traveling backwards through T4 at Road Atlanta I got confused and turned the wheel the opposite way I should have. Does that mean I did something wrong in T3? I decided it was caused by too abrupt turn-in at 3. I was lucky and was going pretty slow by the time I smacked the tire wall. If you squint you can see the dent in my avatar pic.
Cheers
Randy
Cheers
Randy
#44
Formula One Spin Doctor
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Originally Posted by Geo
I've had two off-track events in a car (lots in karts).
First one was very interesting and I wasn't able to figure out what was going on until after the event. I found braking to be inconsistent on one fairly fast section of track. I was able to out-brake three cars one time at this section one lap and another I was hanging on, trying to find the anchor to throw out the window! Late in the race, running a lone and holding a pretty good finishing position I thought I was being conservative in this section and when I went for the brakes I found grip was woefully wanting.... Off in the dirt with my car owner teasing me over the radio after telling me to just drive within myself.
Epilogue: The far outside line had a fair bit less grip than the inside passing line. That explains my successful, seemingly heroic passing efforts while also seeming to have my brain bucket up my bung hole at other times. I usually figure these things out while on-track, but this day I was just befuddled. It wasn't until I got out of the car, got some fluids and stopped kicking myself that I figured out every time I was a lane or two inside I had great braking, but when I was by myself and outside I had a handful.
The second time was, ah, exciting. It was at TWS T3. This turn is not slow but not really fast and the braking is not light, but not really heavy either. Average plus maybe, at least in the SE-R. So, we start the race and as I hit my braking spot the rear end suddenly got ALL squirrelly! Totally caught me off-guard. The car had NEVER done anything like that before and the handling was set a bit on the understeer side. I was 45 deg to the line, but I caught it and gathered it up. Or I should say I almost caught it. I knew it was going to come back the other way on me and I was already prepared for this and came oohhhhhh so close to having it under control. Then it went back the other way again. All I could think of at this point was about 10-15 cars right behind me and not wanting to ball up my friend's car or anyone else's behind me, I decided the smart move was a little agricultural driving off the end of T3. My car owner comes on the radio telling me that I cannot play WRC today. Good friend.
That was the only off-track incident that day for me, but I found right turns to be a TOTAL handful, while left turns were "normal." Other than needing a LOT of concentration, it was manageable. I had NO idea what it was caused by, but I knew I didn't have a tire going down or anything so I kept on this way all the way to the end (interestingly enough a Factory Five Cobra had trouble passing my gimp 150 hp FWD race car - I found this amusing). I also picked up a MAJOR vibration in the front end just as I hit turn-in to T1 with two to go. I thought I was going to crash it pulled so hard at 125 mph.
Epilogue: I was still scratching my head when we put the car on the trailer figuring we'd tear it apart during the week. Then my other partner and crew chief says "What's this grey goo on the side of the car?" Answer: CV grease. That explained everything including the vibration and pull with two to go. That race was the biggest handful I've ever had with the exception of my first rain race - that was in karts on hard slicks for 40 laps.
First one was very interesting and I wasn't able to figure out what was going on until after the event. I found braking to be inconsistent on one fairly fast section of track. I was able to out-brake three cars one time at this section one lap and another I was hanging on, trying to find the anchor to throw out the window! Late in the race, running a lone and holding a pretty good finishing position I thought I was being conservative in this section and when I went for the brakes I found grip was woefully wanting.... Off in the dirt with my car owner teasing me over the radio after telling me to just drive within myself.
Epilogue: The far outside line had a fair bit less grip than the inside passing line. That explains my successful, seemingly heroic passing efforts while also seeming to have my brain bucket up my bung hole at other times. I usually figure these things out while on-track, but this day I was just befuddled. It wasn't until I got out of the car, got some fluids and stopped kicking myself that I figured out every time I was a lane or two inside I had great braking, but when I was by myself and outside I had a handful.
The second time was, ah, exciting. It was at TWS T3. This turn is not slow but not really fast and the braking is not light, but not really heavy either. Average plus maybe, at least in the SE-R. So, we start the race and as I hit my braking spot the rear end suddenly got ALL squirrelly! Totally caught me off-guard. The car had NEVER done anything like that before and the handling was set a bit on the understeer side. I was 45 deg to the line, but I caught it and gathered it up. Or I should say I almost caught it. I knew it was going to come back the other way on me and I was already prepared for this and came oohhhhhh so close to having it under control. Then it went back the other way again. All I could think of at this point was about 10-15 cars right behind me and not wanting to ball up my friend's car or anyone else's behind me, I decided the smart move was a little agricultural driving off the end of T3. My car owner comes on the radio telling me that I cannot play WRC today. Good friend.
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That was the only off-track incident that day for me, but I found right turns to be a TOTAL handful, while left turns were "normal." Other than needing a LOT of concentration, it was manageable. I had NO idea what it was caused by, but I knew I didn't have a tire going down or anything so I kept on this way all the way to the end (interestingly enough a Factory Five Cobra had trouble passing my gimp 150 hp FWD race car - I found this amusing). I also picked up a MAJOR vibration in the front end just as I hit turn-in to T1 with two to go. I thought I was going to crash it pulled so hard at 125 mph.
Epilogue: I was still scratching my head when we put the car on the trailer figuring we'd tear it apart during the week. Then my other partner and crew chief says "What's this grey goo on the side of the car?" Answer: CV grease. That explained everything including the vibration and pull with two to go. That race was the biggest handful I've ever had with the exception of my first rain race - that was in karts on hard slicks for 40 laps.
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#45
Formula One Spin Doctor
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Originally Posted by Flying Finn
Sebring, T1. Coming in pretty good, little too fast & turning maybe little too early, things going ok until on the bumps car starts to slide (I'm on the edge of grip so it doesn't need much), I correct but then realize there's a good chance that I can't make it and if I don't want to spin, I need to ease off, slow down and take it to the grass. I do that (4 wheels on grass), and slowly return to the asphalt and continue.
Check the video in my signature, that moment is there (around 50 secs into th clip).
Check the video in my signature, that moment is there (around 50 secs into th clip).
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Tom great post , you must be in Law enforcement , now we have a documented list of the nutters to avoid at the races
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Last edited by A.Wayne; 08-17-2007 at 12:32 AM.