European GP 07
07-22-2007, 07:31 AM
#31
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Originally Posted by Flying Finn
Wheel "moved" a little bit since the nut was loose and because of that (movement), wheel touched something in suspension, propably the brake duct, so the wheel grinded itself into the brake duct and that caused the air to escape (those wheels are VERY thin material), once the tyre was flat, it stopped rolling and rest you saw.
That is not official info, just my educated guess.
That is not official info, just my educated guess.
07-22-2007, 07:41 AM
#32
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Originally Posted by A.Wayne
Finn, since you are recently back from Finland, How is kimi's revival being taken by F1 fans , the media etc... there ? Is it anything like Hamilton and the british press? ..
In FInland it's been more sort of believing Kimi didn't lose his talent, rather hoping & waiting that he, car & team start to work together so that he can be back to normal and show his speed. Two races I watched there (UK & France) were of course awesome (a lot of screaming & cheering!) but the feeling is mostly sort of relief since they and me have been waiting for this to come but it's been frustrating.
I said in the beginning that we need to wait until the half of the season but was hoping it would come sooner and the wait has been long. Glad that they (Kimi & F) work now!
Sort of same feelings with Kovalainen, we know (ok, let's say "believe") he's good, talented & fast but are in waiting game and the beginning has been frustrating. He is starting to "show light" (that's how we say when you're faster, meaning of course the rear lights) to Fisichella which is great.
They (Finnish race drivers) get the critisism when it's due, I believe in general the crowd is pretty educated people since motorsport is & has been such a big part in our lives since early 1900. (I believe that's the case with Brits too)
And we obviously believe that we're pretty good at it!
Last edited by Flying Finn; 07-22-2007 at 08:00 AM.
07-22-2007, 08:39 AM
#33
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Originally Posted by A.Wayne
They will use the backup car with his current engine ....as the current tub is toast....
same engine, same gearbox, new suspension, new monocoque = same car
bit like King Arthur's Axe.
R+C
PS if they had switched to the backup car, they would have been starting from Pit Lane
07-22-2007, 09:59 AM
#35
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Originally Posted by smlporsche
Why didn't any of the teams start at least one car on the intermediates???
It seemed like it would have been a perfect gamble for Hamilton............
It seemed like it would have been a perfect gamble for Hamilton............
Interestingly, I find the theoreticians and designers in Americas Cup racing to be much 'smarter' than in F1. Certainly the 'thinking outside the box' is more prevalent and the maths skills are superior. Ross Brawn was impressed when he spent timje having a look in Valencia this year.
R+C
07-22-2007, 10:44 AM
#36
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Originally Posted by schwank
Here's a couple pics of some of the merch that I picked up last Sunday... sorry for the crappy images, I don't have Photoshop on this laptop and I have to do my resizing in MS Paint. Fricking Vista...
On my long sleeve with the track map on the reverse, the Michael Schumacher Kurve is not named as such. As for the pink one... yeah, well, thought you guys might like it. I would get my *** kicked (or at least smacked hard
) if she saw that posted... it's the only work safe one of the bunch too. She's my own personal pit babe.
The BMW logos everywhere have to be covered as that is the deal with F1... only F1 sponsor logos can be seen anywhere, including the local beers (Bitbuger) and such. Thus that day at the Start/Ziel bar the BMW was covered with the Panasonic sign. To me it is always fun to be somewhere right before the crowds burst onto the scene... that day we were the only two in the bar, but the whole city was preparing for the hundreds of thousands of visitors just days later.
On my long sleeve with the track map on the reverse, the Michael Schumacher Kurve is not named as such. As for the pink one... yeah, well, thought you guys might like it. I would get my *** kicked (or at least smacked hard
) if she saw that posted... it's the only work safe one of the bunch too. She's my own personal pit babe.The BMW logos everywhere have to be covered as that is the deal with F1... only F1 sponsor logos can be seen anywhere, including the local beers (Bitbuger) and such. Thus that day at the Start/Ziel bar the BMW was covered with the Panasonic sign. To me it is always fun to be somewhere right before the crowds burst onto the scene... that day we were the only two in the bar, but the whole city was preparing for the hundreds of thousands of visitors just days later.
Are those mixture ***** in the last pic
Well the t-shirts look good, which is mine
07-22-2007, 11:39 AM
#37
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Alonso wins European GP
By Matt Beer Sunday, July 22nd 2007, 14:13 GMT
McLaren's Fernando Alonso closed to within two points of the world championship lead by beating Felipe Massa to victory in a chaotic, rain-interrupted, European Grand Prix.
Massa had emerged at the front of the field once the race settled down following a downpour and consequent red flag in the opening moments, and the Ferrari pulled away from Alonso in the middle stages.
But when the rain returned in the final laps, Alonso closed in on Massa and snatched the lead with an extremely bold move around the outside of Turn 5 with just five laps to go.
With McLaren teammate Lewis Hamilton finishing outside the points after an incident-filled race, Alonso's first victory since Monaco is an enormous boost to his title hopes.
But Kimi Raikkonen's championship prospects were dented when he retired from third place with a mechanical problem.
The race will be best remembered for its bizarre original start.
Light rain began on the formation lap, and the precipitation quickly became an enormous downpour.
The whole field headed for the pitlane at the end of the opening lap, but race leader Kimi Raikkonen misjudged the pit entrance, slid back on to the track and had to complete another lap on dry tyres on an increasingly saturated track.
He was passed by Spyker's new driver Markus Winkelhock - who had started from the pitlane on intermediates and found himself leading the race by 20 seconds as the rest of the pack changed tyres.
But the red flag soon came out as the rain caused increasing chaos, especially as standing water built up at Turn 1.
Jenson Button was the first to aquaplane off the road, and he was soon followed by Lewis Hamilton, who had jumped from 10th to fourth at the start, only to pick up a puncture when Nick Heidfeld tagged BMW teammate Robert Kubica and sent the Pole spinning into Hamilton's McLaren.
He pitted and rejoined on intermediates, only to go straight off the road on the standing water.
Both Toro Rossos and Adrian Sutil also went off at Turn 1, with Vitantonio Liuzzi narrowly missing the safety car as he rotated, and then lightly tagging a recovery vehicle.
Hamilton had kept the engine running, and was lifted out of the gravel and allowed to take the restart from 17th and last. He was a lap down, but under the 2007 regulations, he was allowed to unlap himself under the safety car laps that were run as the race restarted after a 20 minute halt.
The only driver able to complete a lap at racing speed, Hamilton decided it was worth gambling on an early switch to dry tyres before the restart. But the track was still too damp, and Hamilton went off the road on his out-lap, then proceeded to lose 12 seconds per lap to the leaders until a sufficiently dry line emerged.
Massa had passed Alonso at the original start, then benefited from Raikkonen's pit entry mistake to move into second behind Winkelhock. The Spyker quickly tumbled down the field at the restart, having stayed on extreme wet tyres in case more rain appeared, and then retired with an engine failure.
Raikkonen took the restart in seventh, but gained four places by pitting a lap sooner than most for dry tyres. He then rapidly closed in on Alonso, who was unable to match Massa's pace in dry conditions, only to retire on lap 34 when his Ferrari started cutting out.
Alonso fell as much as eight seconds behind Massa, who looked certain of victory until the clouds darkened again in the last 10 laps.
The entire field had to pit yet again to go back on to intermediates, and Alonso proved substantially faster than Massa on the wet track.
He was soon all over the Ferrari, and although Massa managed to resist him for two laps, the McLaren swept around on the outside of Turn 5 - with a touch of wheel-banging - on lap 55, then proceeded to pull away and claim an extremely important victory.
The final podium position went to Red Bull's Mark Webber - his first podium finish since Monaco 2005. He had risen to third during the early chaos, then regained the place when Raikkonen retired.
Williams' Alex Wurz put the Australian under enormous pressure in the final laps and came within 0.2 seconds of stealing third position, but had to settle for fourth.
David Coulthard completed an excellent race for Red Bull by taking fifth ahead of the BMWs, who had recovered from their early tangle to pressure Coulthard for much of the distance.
But the Scot pulled away in the wet, while Heidfeld got back ahead of Kubica in the final laps to take sixth. The German is under investigation by the stewards after a mid-race tangle with Ralf Schumacher that left the Toyota in the gravel at the last corner.
Heikki Kovalainen had challenged Webber for third in the middle stint, but tumbled to eighth when Renault gambled on a premature switch to intermediates as the rain approached at the end of the race.
Hamilton stayed on dry tyres as long as he could in the final shower in the hope of gaining a point, but eventually had to pit and settle for ninth, ending his run of podium finishes.
PROVISIONAL RACE RESULTS
The European Grand Prix
The Nurburgring, Germamy;
60 laps; 308.863km;
Weather: Wet, then dry.
Classified:
Pos Driver Team Time
1. Alonso McLaren-Mercedes (B) 2h06:26.358
2. Massa Ferrari (B) + 8.155
3. Webber Red Bull-Renault (B) + 1:05.674
4. Wurz Williams-Toyota (B) + 1:05.937
5. Coulthard Red Bull-Renault (B) + 1:13.656
6. Heidfeld BMW Sauber (B) + 1:20.298
7. Kubica BMW Sauber (B) + 1:22.415
8. Kovalainen Renault (B) + 1 lap
9. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes (B) + 1 lap
10. Fisichella Renault (B) + 1 lap
11. Barrichello Honda (B) + 1 lap
12. Davidson Super Aguri-Honda (B) + 1 lap
13. Trulli Toyota (B) + 1 lap
Fastest lap: Massa, 1:32.853
Not classified/retirements:
Driver Team On lap
Raikkonen Ferrari (B) 36
Sato Super Aguri-Honda (B) 20
R.Schumacher Toyota (B) 19
Winkelhock Spyker-Ferrari (B) 15
Button Honda (B) 3
Sutil Spyker-Ferrari (B) 3
Rosberg Williams-Toyota (B) 3
Speed Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 3
Liuzzi Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 3
World Championship standings, round 10:
Drivers: Constructors:
1. Hamilton 70 1. McLaren-Mercedes 138
2. Alonso 68 2. Ferrari 111
3. Massa 59 3. BMW Sauber 61
4. Raikkonen 52 4. Renault 32
5. Heidfeld 36 5. Williams-Toyota 18
6. Kubica 24 6. Red Bull-Renault 16
7. Fisichella 17 7. Toyota 9
8. Kovalainen 15 8. Super Aguri-Honda 4
9. Wurz 13 9. Honda 1
10. Webber 8
11. Coulthard 8
12. Trulli 7
13. Rosberg 5
14. Sato 4
15. R.Schumacher 2
16. Vettel 1
17. Button 1
McLaren's Fernando Alonso closed to within two points of the world championship lead by beating Felipe Massa to victory in a chaotic, rain-interrupted, European Grand Prix.
Massa had emerged at the front of the field once the race settled down following a downpour and consequent red flag in the opening moments, and the Ferrari pulled away from Alonso in the middle stages.
But when the rain returned in the final laps, Alonso closed in on Massa and snatched the lead with an extremely bold move around the outside of Turn 5 with just five laps to go.
With McLaren teammate Lewis Hamilton finishing outside the points after an incident-filled race, Alonso's first victory since Monaco is an enormous boost to his title hopes.
But Kimi Raikkonen's championship prospects were dented when he retired from third place with a mechanical problem.
The race will be best remembered for its bizarre original start.
Light rain began on the formation lap, and the precipitation quickly became an enormous downpour.
The whole field headed for the pitlane at the end of the opening lap, but race leader Kimi Raikkonen misjudged the pit entrance, slid back on to the track and had to complete another lap on dry tyres on an increasingly saturated track.
He was passed by Spyker's new driver Markus Winkelhock - who had started from the pitlane on intermediates and found himself leading the race by 20 seconds as the rest of the pack changed tyres.
But the red flag soon came out as the rain caused increasing chaos, especially as standing water built up at Turn 1.
Jenson Button was the first to aquaplane off the road, and he was soon followed by Lewis Hamilton, who had jumped from 10th to fourth at the start, only to pick up a puncture when Nick Heidfeld tagged BMW teammate Robert Kubica and sent the Pole spinning into Hamilton's McLaren.
He pitted and rejoined on intermediates, only to go straight off the road on the standing water.
Both Toro Rossos and Adrian Sutil also went off at Turn 1, with Vitantonio Liuzzi narrowly missing the safety car as he rotated, and then lightly tagging a recovery vehicle.
Hamilton had kept the engine running, and was lifted out of the gravel and allowed to take the restart from 17th and last. He was a lap down, but under the 2007 regulations, he was allowed to unlap himself under the safety car laps that were run as the race restarted after a 20 minute halt.
The only driver able to complete a lap at racing speed, Hamilton decided it was worth gambling on an early switch to dry tyres before the restart. But the track was still too damp, and Hamilton went off the road on his out-lap, then proceeded to lose 12 seconds per lap to the leaders until a sufficiently dry line emerged.
Massa had passed Alonso at the original start, then benefited from Raikkonen's pit entry mistake to move into second behind Winkelhock. The Spyker quickly tumbled down the field at the restart, having stayed on extreme wet tyres in case more rain appeared, and then retired with an engine failure.
Raikkonen took the restart in seventh, but gained four places by pitting a lap sooner than most for dry tyres. He then rapidly closed in on Alonso, who was unable to match Massa's pace in dry conditions, only to retire on lap 34 when his Ferrari started cutting out.
Alonso fell as much as eight seconds behind Massa, who looked certain of victory until the clouds darkened again in the last 10 laps.
The entire field had to pit yet again to go back on to intermediates, and Alonso proved substantially faster than Massa on the wet track.
He was soon all over the Ferrari, and although Massa managed to resist him for two laps, the McLaren swept around on the outside of Turn 5 - with a touch of wheel-banging - on lap 55, then proceeded to pull away and claim an extremely important victory.
The final podium position went to Red Bull's Mark Webber - his first podium finish since Monaco 2005. He had risen to third during the early chaos, then regained the place when Raikkonen retired.
Williams' Alex Wurz put the Australian under enormous pressure in the final laps and came within 0.2 seconds of stealing third position, but had to settle for fourth.
David Coulthard completed an excellent race for Red Bull by taking fifth ahead of the BMWs, who had recovered from their early tangle to pressure Coulthard for much of the distance.
But the Scot pulled away in the wet, while Heidfeld got back ahead of Kubica in the final laps to take sixth. The German is under investigation by the stewards after a mid-race tangle with Ralf Schumacher that left the Toyota in the gravel at the last corner.
Heikki Kovalainen had challenged Webber for third in the middle stint, but tumbled to eighth when Renault gambled on a premature switch to intermediates as the rain approached at the end of the race.
Hamilton stayed on dry tyres as long as he could in the final shower in the hope of gaining a point, but eventually had to pit and settle for ninth, ending his run of podium finishes.
PROVISIONAL RACE RESULTS
The European Grand Prix
The Nurburgring, Germamy;
60 laps; 308.863km;
Weather: Wet, then dry.
Classified:
Pos Driver Team Time
1. Alonso McLaren-Mercedes (B) 2h06:26.358
2. Massa Ferrari (B) + 8.155
3. Webber Red Bull-Renault (B) + 1:05.674
4. Wurz Williams-Toyota (B) + 1:05.937
5. Coulthard Red Bull-Renault (B) + 1:13.656
6. Heidfeld BMW Sauber (B) + 1:20.298
7. Kubica BMW Sauber (B) + 1:22.415
8. Kovalainen Renault (B) + 1 lap
9. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes (B) + 1 lap
10. Fisichella Renault (B) + 1 lap
11. Barrichello Honda (B) + 1 lap
12. Davidson Super Aguri-Honda (B) + 1 lap
13. Trulli Toyota (B) + 1 lap
Fastest lap: Massa, 1:32.853
Not classified/retirements:
Driver Team On lap
Raikkonen Ferrari (B) 36
Sato Super Aguri-Honda (B) 20
R.Schumacher Toyota (B) 19
Winkelhock Spyker-Ferrari (B) 15
Button Honda (B) 3
Sutil Spyker-Ferrari (B) 3
Rosberg Williams-Toyota (B) 3
Speed Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 3
Liuzzi Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 3
World Championship standings, round 10:
Drivers: Constructors:
1. Hamilton 70 1. McLaren-Mercedes 138
2. Alonso 68 2. Ferrari 111
3. Massa 59 3. BMW Sauber 61
4. Raikkonen 52 4. Renault 32
5. Heidfeld 36 5. Williams-Toyota 18
6. Kubica 24 6. Red Bull-Renault 16
7. Fisichella 17 7. Toyota 9
8. Kovalainen 15 8. Super Aguri-Honda 4
9. Wurz 13 9. Honda 1
10. Webber 8
11. Coulthard 8
12. Trulli 7
13. Rosberg 5
14. Sato 4
15. R.Schumacher 2
16. Vettel 1
17. Button 1
07-22-2007, 11:53 AM
#38
Formula One Spin Doctor
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Fantastic race , just what we needed , lewis to score no points , a pity Kimi could not capitalize to make it a 4 way title fight ...
07-22-2007, 11:57 AM
#39
Race Director
What happened to Kimi, never never said if he ran out of gas or the engine gave up?
07-22-2007, 12:25 PM
#40
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That was indeed a crazy race. The initial start was UGLY, things were really dangerous with 5 cars piling into the gravel in one turn... the near miss by Liuzzi was really sketchy.
Kimi's failure was very unfortunate as he was running well and pressuring Alonso for quite some time. Ferrari was looking great for a finish, and their constructor's points would have been great given Hamilton's issues.
It was crazy to see the speed difference at the end between Massa and Alonso in the wet. No way Massa could hold him off as his car was clearly slower.
The funniest moments came post race however... first Alonso having the camera guy come to the side of his car to show him Massa's tire mark, then pointing at the Ferrari car and waving his finger.
Then in the ready room where Massa and Alonso had some words with Massa looking a bit ticked. Finally the obviously less than happy MS as he handed the constructor trophy to Ron Dennis, with Dennis giving him some joking words the Schuey didn't seem to like.
All in all the weather definitely played havoc on the race and had a large factor in the results. Damn McLaren.
Kimi's failure was very unfortunate as he was running well and pressuring Alonso for quite some time. Ferrari was looking great for a finish, and their constructor's points would have been great given Hamilton's issues.
It was crazy to see the speed difference at the end between Massa and Alonso in the wet. No way Massa could hold him off as his car was clearly slower.
The funniest moments came post race however... first Alonso having the camera guy come to the side of his car to show him Massa's tire mark, then pointing at the Ferrari car and waving his finger.
Then in the ready room where Massa and Alonso had some words with Massa looking a bit ticked. Finally the obviously less than happy MS as he handed the constructor trophy to Ron Dennis, with Dennis giving him some joking words the Schuey didn't seem to like.All in all the weather definitely played havoc on the race and had a large factor in the results. Damn McLaren.
07-22-2007, 01:56 PM
#41
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HA HA HA HA HA!
Speedvision on the west coast is only showing the race now and i've avoided any spoilers.
That has to be one of the funniest lap 2/3 incidents in recent F1. The speedvision commentators couldn't believe it either as car after car slithers over the gravel into the wall.
Its a shame they werent better prepared though.
Speedvision on the west coast is only showing the race now and i've avoided any spoilers.
That has to be one of the funniest lap 2/3 incidents in recent F1. The speedvision commentators couldn't believe it either as car after car slithers over the gravel into the wall.
Its a shame they werent better prepared though.
07-22-2007, 02:17 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by mdrums
What happened to Kimi, never never said if he ran out of gas or the engine gave up?
Kimi what sort of car problems caused your DNF? "It was hydraulics". End of interview........... I guess that could include no fuel to the fuel pump.
He really did try make the pit lane which seemed more like fuel then. Had he went dead on track in a bad place, there could have been a full yellow which would have cost Ferrari points as Hamilton would surely have passed a couple more cars with a bunched up field.
07-22-2007, 03:40 PM
#43
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Originally Posted by A.Wayne
Fantastic race , just what we needed , lewis to score no points , a pity Kimi could not capitalize to make it a 4 way title fight ...
So typical! Just when Kimi had chance to catch up, of course his car fails!!!
07-22-2007, 05:08 PM
#44
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Kimi, is too far back now to win the WC, it would take more DNF's from the other 3 for him to claw away at the points. Kimi and Massa will need a lot of Ferrari 1,2,'s to get them back in this , Alonso will be at his best to protect his 2 point deficit taking points when he can or have to, He just has to protect his position and wait , the Ferrari guys will have to go for it every weekend .
I do believe Kimi ran out of fuel or had fuel pump failure .. If Massa wins the next race , Ferrari will and should fall behind him as they will need him to max out the points to have a chance to win the WC instead of splitting points with Kimi ......
I do believe Kimi ran out of fuel or had fuel pump failure .. If Massa wins the next race , Ferrari will and should fall behind him as they will need him to max out the points to have a chance to win the WC instead of splitting points with Kimi ......
