VIR Full course Aug 9th
07-17-2007, 08:53 PM
#46
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by A930Rocket
Brian,
There has been a mistake. Advanced is FULL. You'll be in the Intermediate Group.
Is that a problem?
There has been a mistake. Advanced is FULL. You'll be in the Intermediate Group.
Is that a problem?
you are so cruel.
07-17-2007, 09:04 PM
#47
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You are kidding right? We find the slowest car in the group and that car is not to be passed?
...shouldn't we drive according to the least common denominator?
Originally Posted by shustermeister
...shouldn't we drive according to the least common denominator?
07-17-2007, 09:25 PM
#50
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Originally Posted by shustermeister
There's a huge disparity in the equipment (go-fast and safety) among the cars, and to be responsible, shouldn't we drive according to the least common denominator?
07-17-2007, 09:32 PM
#51
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Originally Posted by A930Rocket
You are kidding right? We find the slowest car in the group and that car is not to be passed?
Hell, I enjoy passing people too, especially cars that took a while to catch.
All I'm saying is that if the passing zone/free passing expectation is set at registration time, everyone can opt whether or not that event is one in which they want to participate. If I had a prepped track car, and everyone on the track with me has the expectation that passing everywhere is allowed - very cool. However, if the expectation is changed after registration and I show up with my street car at an event, open passing is announced, I'm going to have to decide whether to run or go home.
I may not want to expose my daily driver to conditions that are above my tolerance for risk (i.e. open passing). I'm cool with the risks in a traditional D.E. - If I wanted to get race-like conditions, I'd get a race car and go race.
07-17-2007, 10:16 PM
#52
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NOBODY is gonna be passing in corners. Braking zones rarely, if ever.
Dude, that's the type of mentality that has screwed up our public education system. Cater to the lowest (in this case) slowest common denominator.
There's still the beginner group, just drop down when you get there, otherwise, keep an eye on that mirror, cause me, and a bunch of other people (I won't call names but there's a bunch on this thread) that like to do more than "touring" are gonna be coming, and coming fast. DE means different things to different people, that's why there's different levels. I stretch my car's legs from the time I leave pit road, until I pull back onto pit road, and I don't let the poor girl breath for one second if I can help it.
Basically all we've asked for is more passing zones so that things will flow much better when we get behind people like you, who are out there "touring". We want to GO. 4 passing zones aren't gonna allow us to GO. there's nothing "race-like" about that. And more than 4 passing zones is not going to hurt you in any way, unless your not giving signals, then you may have a mob greet you when you out of your car, but that's a different scenario that's left for most HBO movies...
if you are 15 or more seconds slower, then you are more than likely a danger to us, vs us being a danger to you.
We'll have fun, don't worry. As long as people give swift signals (after all you're advanced, nobody should have to ride 1/2 mile behind you at VIR before getting a signal - there's plenty of straights to pass on).
We'll have fun, and it won't be dangerous, unless you slam on brakes midway down the backstraight or something crazy like that....
Brian
Dude, that's the type of mentality that has screwed up our public education system. Cater to the lowest (in this case) slowest common denominator.
There's still the beginner group, just drop down when you get there, otherwise, keep an eye on that mirror, cause me, and a bunch of other people (I won't call names but there's a bunch on this thread) that like to do more than "touring" are gonna be coming, and coming fast. DE means different things to different people, that's why there's different levels. I stretch my car's legs from the time I leave pit road, until I pull back onto pit road, and I don't let the poor girl breath for one second if I can help it.
Basically all we've asked for is more passing zones so that things will flow much better when we get behind people like you, who are out there "touring". We want to GO. 4 passing zones aren't gonna allow us to GO. there's nothing "race-like" about that. And more than 4 passing zones is not going to hurt you in any way, unless your not giving signals, then you may have a mob greet you when you out of your car, but that's a different scenario that's left for most HBO movies...
if you are 15 or more seconds slower, then you are more than likely a danger to us, vs us being a danger to you.
We'll have fun, don't worry. As long as people give swift signals (after all you're advanced, nobody should have to ride 1/2 mile behind you at VIR before getting a signal - there's plenty of straights to pass on).
We'll have fun, and it won't be dangerous, unless you slam on brakes midway down the backstraight or something crazy like that....
Brian
07-17-2007, 10:31 PM
#53
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Originally Posted by shustermeister
No no no. Don't misunderstand me here - I'm not saying that. I'm saying that passing in corners or in heavy braking zones is much riskier than passing on designated straights. Since many of the cars out there are not setup with racing safety equipment and many of us may be out there in our street cars having fun, you may need to wait until the next passing zone to get by. Advanced and Instructors should be well aware of who's coming up on them and then courteously let them by at the next opportunity.
Hell, I enjoy passing people too, especially cars that took a while to catch.
All I'm saying is that if the passing zone/free passing expectation is set at registration time, everyone can opt whether or not that event is one in which they want to participate. If I had a prepped track car, and everyone on the track with me has the expectation that passing everywhere is allowed - very cool. However, if the expectation is changed after registration and I show up with my street car at an event, open passing is announced, I'm going to have to decide whether to run or go home.
I may not want to expose my daily driver to conditions that are above my tolerance for risk (i.e. open passing). I'm cool with the risks in a traditional D.E. - If I wanted to get race-like conditions, I'd get a race car and go race.
Hell, I enjoy passing people too, especially cars that took a while to catch.
All I'm saying is that if the passing zone/free passing expectation is set at registration time, everyone can opt whether or not that event is one in which they want to participate. If I had a prepped track car, and everyone on the track with me has the expectation that passing everywhere is allowed - very cool. However, if the expectation is changed after registration and I show up with my street car at an event, open passing is announced, I'm going to have to decide whether to run or go home.
I may not want to expose my daily driver to conditions that are above my tolerance for risk (i.e. open passing). I'm cool with the risks in a traditional D.E. - If I wanted to get race-like conditions, I'd get a race car and go race.
I don't mean to insult you or your driving but you can always step back to the intermediate group (with me). The last Ferrari DE I drove in many people did step back for that very reason. There are drivers who I run BMW and PCA DEs with, who request not to get bumped up to "A" group or the "black" group for the very reason you just mentioned.
But...let's let the big dogs run!!
k
07-17-2007, 10:37 PM
#54
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Originally Posted by shustermeister
................
If I wanted to pass anywhere and drive *****-out all the time, I'd get myself a fully prepped race car and go racing.
...............................
If I wanted to pass anywhere and drive *****-out all the time, I'd get myself a fully prepped race car and go racing.
...............................
I am far from the fastest, but I have been on the track with Brian, and many others, who are much faster, but we co-exist quite nicely. If you are aware of what is going on around you when on a track, and you should be, you won't have any surprises or concerns.
Enjoy the event guys!
07-17-2007, 10:59 PM
#56
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Hey Brian, I count the following passing zones I have been given: Front straight, kink before Nascar, short straight after Nascar, bridge straigtht, short shoot before oak tree after T10?, back boring straight, shoot straight down roller coaster. Are you saying this would not be all the passing zones they allow you guys?
07-17-2007, 11:05 PM
#57
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I've got one more thing to say... (yeah, I know, surprise surprise)...
As much as it baffles someone like SCHU that we would want to actually go out on a racetrack and drive fast, it baffles those of us in the advanced group that like to drive hard and run fast, that "experienced and/or advanced" drivers, who wish to attend a track event pretty much for the purpose of "touring" would even sign up for the highest (typically fastest group)... Huh???
I mean, that would be like me buying a first class ticket on a 12 hour flight to destination X, and farting and belching liberally and without reserve on the other first class passengers for the entire 12 hours, and ruining what would otherwise be a nice, uneventful flight. As much as me doing that wouldn't make sense, it doesn't make sense that someone who really doesn't want to drive their car as hard as they can, registers in the top most advanced (once again, typically fastest) run group.
Brian
As much as it baffles someone like SCHU that we would want to actually go out on a racetrack and drive fast, it baffles those of us in the advanced group that like to drive hard and run fast, that "experienced and/or advanced" drivers, who wish to attend a track event pretty much for the purpose of "touring" would even sign up for the highest (typically fastest group)... Huh???
I mean, that would be like me buying a first class ticket on a 12 hour flight to destination X, and farting and belching liberally and without reserve on the other first class passengers for the entire 12 hours, and ruining what would otherwise be a nice, uneventful flight. As much as me doing that wouldn't make sense, it doesn't make sense that someone who really doesn't want to drive their car as hard as they can, registers in the top most advanced (once again, typically fastest) run group.
Brian
07-17-2007, 11:07 PM
#58
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No Bob, that would be the most that any PCA club would allow.
Front
1-2
3-4
Bridge
10-11
Back
Roller
Front
That's alot better than 4
- any day of the week
Front
1-2
3-4
Bridge
10-11
Back
Roller
Front
That's alot better than 4
- any day of the week
07-17-2007, 11:11 PM
#59
Racer
Funny- I actually jumped in with my comments to start some fireworks and it did the trick. Nothing like starting some s**t with dedicated track ******! LOL
I'm not out there to go "touring" either, and with my previous car (Z06) I was probably as fast if not faster than many of the "big dogs" here. Not looking to pee in anyone's Corn Flakes, I'm sure you're all fast and safe.
My comments above were not meant to say jumping from 4 passing zones to all-out racing was what was asked for. I'm for as many passing zones as can be managed - and for D.E., passing in late brake zone or in mid-corner is not totally comfortable to me, though I've done it before. VIR has a lot of safe places to pass that most D.E.'s don't allow because they consider the main passing zones to be enough. Each club can decide for themselves.
Hope y'all have fun at the event - I'm sure I'll see you guys at future events, as the "boss" didn't clear this one for me, since it's a Wednesday.
Nothing like starting some s**t with dedicated track ******! LOLI'm not out there to go "touring" either, and with my previous car (Z06) I was probably as fast if not faster than many of the "big dogs" here. Not looking to pee in anyone's Corn Flakes, I'm sure you're all fast and safe.
My comments above were not meant to say jumping from 4 passing zones to all-out racing was what was asked for. I'm for as many passing zones as can be managed - and for D.E., passing in late brake zone or in mid-corner is not totally comfortable to me, though I've done it before. VIR has a lot of safe places to pass that most D.E.'s don't allow because they consider the main passing zones to be enough. Each club can decide for themselves.
Hope y'all have fun at the event - I'm sure I'll see you guys at future events, as the "boss" didn't clear this one for me, since it's a Wednesday.