Phokaioglaukos

Holy sh*t!

I watched it once, so maybe my reaction is closer to what it would have beenin real life, but I saw the point by being held for a number of cars and also for "me." That's why the rule is one distinct point by for each car, but still people do just hold their point by without distinct motions. That usually seems to be the slower cars in long passing zones, though.

Glad it worked out ok, and LOTS here to think about!

sweanders

Why would anyone want to drive slow enough to warrant a white flag if there is nothing wrong and then suddenly decide to gun it without making sure that there is nobody behind? Sometimes (DE) rules have to be bypassed to let common sense in the game..

George A

What a jerk!!! Not necessarily for his driving but his reaction when you both pulled in. I can’t believe he just walked away.

G.

James-man

Probably wouldn't of happened if there wasn't a student (presumably that was the tall fellow's status) in the silver car.

If you were the only car behind him, I would expect a point by from that far back to be given. I think he was turning and you were no longer in the mirrors when you came up and interpreted the point by.

Did the yellow car give you the point by as well?

I may not be as experienced with DEs as you, so probably shouldn't critique. If that was me I would have scolded myself for being impatient and taking unnecessary risk. Although this never would've been me in reality because I couldn't pass that corvette and zip through that straight as fast as you did.

Have fun and keep safe!

James-man

I agree that his point by of the earlier car lingered longer than necessary.

Thanks for posting the video.

jrok

The passenger in the silver 996 was his son. He said he saw me coming in the side mirror. The CI in the yellow GT3 had his fist in the air to pit in and said he saw me coming and thought he saw two cars behind him with hands in the air.

The silver 996 had his hand resting on the door sill down the entire straight, even after the other two cars had passed and he stayed in line behind the yellow GT3. In my mind, that was for me to pass. His son said he thought he saw the yellow GT3 with a fist alternating with a point by, I could only see a fist from him. In the video it's hard to see clearly, but in real time it seemed perfectly natural what was happening, especially in this group.

In order for something like this to happen, generally several things all come together at once. I passed the corvette early and the silver 996 hadn't seen me before, or or how close I was, or at the velocity that I was approaching. He was watching the traffic he knew was back there go past and was also watching the hand signals from the yellow GT3. During that time he said he didn't remember where his arm was -- but maybe because he didn't think there was anyone else back there.

I didn't know that. I saw the other cars pass and a hand still on the roof as I approached rapidly. He just never saw me coming and I thought by his gestures that he had.

Everyone seemed very comfortable after two days and was passing very late in that group and it did not seem at all unusual but I did not feel that I was completely not at fault for what had happened and pulled in to talk to him.

Mistakes where made and I felt I was part of it, no matter what I thought had just happened.

After everybody cooled off it was fine from a personal level but I felt I had become too comfortable trusting that everyone could see me coming and was doing what I expected -- so I sat myself out the rest of the day to think about it.

Thanks for that.

Veloce Raptor

Credit where credit is due! We have all made mistakes on track, and those who deny it are lying. Yours ended well, and you reacted like a mature, reflective person.

SundayDriver

As VR said, we all screw up on the track at some point, some more than others. Some lessons:

1) The track is a dangerous place, regardless of what you may think.
2) Always have an out with each pass. Know where you are going or how you are going to hit the other car if there is no out.

jrok

1) I respect this boards opinion and the danger so much that as a 2nd year DE/TT driver, before this season started, I have invested in $75,000 of insurance, fire gloves, fire balaclava, fire suit, race seats, roll bar, 6-point harness and a HANS device. Not to mention going through PCA DE school and all of NASA HPDE school last year. I will be going through PCA National Instructor Certification with Pete Tremper in two weeks as well.

I will do probably 40 track days this year. So it's not a matter of if, it's when -- and when that comes, I don't want to hurt anybody and I want to live. If I have to ditch to avoid somebody or something or my car breaks, I wanted to be prepared the first time -- because, well, you know.

2) This I need to focus on more, it is not just something to think about, I need to make it more instinct and that will have to come with seat time maturity and mental preparedness. I also need to be more regimented at calling out flag stations as "clear" in my head while I'm driving. That has been my goal this year and some sessions I get absorbed and forget. I haven't missed any flags, but I don't ever want to.

Thanks Mark, you must know that myself and many others appreciate any comments that you give.

Chris M.

This must have happened Monday. I had to leave Sunday and didn't hear any shenanigans in the pits (I was in garage 12 with David Ratliff). Anyway, I bet he just didn't see you. In May when I was coming through Madness I noticed a car gaining on me. When I got to Thunder Valley I looked in my mirrors ready to give a point by but saw no car. I thought he had crashed or had a mechanical further back. By the time I got to the braking zone before the left-hander there he was on my bumper, probably pissed I hadn't signaled him by. He had been perfectly situated in my blind spot. Glad you guys got things worked out.

78SC

That guy obviously did not check his mirrors before pulling out--too little track awareness.

jrok

I was in garage 15. This happened on Sunday at lunch, not on Monday. There was alot going on in Thunder Valley right then. He didn't see me, I was too comfortable that he did. The pit-in car just made it even more complicated. It's something I must learn from.

DrJupeman

This was a complicated situation! As in every accident there is usually more than one thing that goes wrong in the "accident chain". I can see at least three contributing links that luckily didn't break and result in an accident:

1) GT3 pitting too slowly mid session (was there a mechanical issue?), get around that turn then get left and pit-in
2) No track awareness at all in the silver car - dangerously bad.
3) Too much aggression in the car attempting to pass. Projecting that pass ahead in time, you might have ended up three wide in the turn. Typically not a good thing in DE.

Larry Herman

The thing is that this can happen to the best of us. We need to pay more attention than we sometimes do. I mentioned this once before, but I came really really close to hitting another car at a DE this spring. I can't recall the last time that I was ever that close. It was at VIR in the Red group, and I was rapidly gaining on a car up the climbing esses. They dutifully gave me a clear signal at the exit of the last esse, and I tracked out to their left to pass before South Bend (a fast left hander). To my surprise, they came right over on me and I had to slam on the brakes to avoid hitting them at the apex.

Shaken, we both went into the pits to discuss it. The upshot was that they saw me closing and gave me an early signal for the straight after South Bend. It was too early as there was plenty of room to pass before South Bend. So we both learned something, them not to signal too early, and me not to trust a signal in a close place from someone who I do not know.

The ironic part of this was that I was teaching the advanced class that weekend.

cooleyjb

I concur, as well as you handling of it here.

It's easy to let ego and bad attitudes make this bad, but you have put this out there with what seems to be the intent of learning and future accident avoidance.