Video: One exciting lap at Mid-Ohio
06-12-2007, 10:34 PM
#31
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Originally Posted by DrJupeman
This was a complicated situation! As in every accident there is usually more than one thing that goes wrong in the "accident chain". I can see at least three contributing links that luckily didn't break and result in an accident:
1) GT3 pitting too slowly mid session (was there a mechanical issue?), get around that turn then get left and pit-in
2) No track awareness at all in the silver car - dangerously bad.
3) Too much aggression in the car attempting to pass. Projecting that pass ahead in time, you might have ended up three wide in the turn. Typically not a good thing in DE.
1) GT3 pitting too slowly mid session (was there a mechanical issue?), get around that turn then get left and pit-in
2) No track awareness at all in the silver car - dangerously bad.
3) Too much aggression in the car attempting to pass. Projecting that pass ahead in time, you might have ended up three wide in the turn. Typically not a good thing in DE.
In the situation on the video, it is your responsiblility to be in control as you are the overtaking car. With so much going on (slow moving vehicle, three vehicles passing, possible three wide going into an apex) judgement is the key here. DE is as much about track awareness as it is about driving the line. Getting the "red mist" and target acquisition prevented you from using your judgement and simply waiting for the appropriate and safe opportunity.
That being said, I empathise with your feelings. I imagine that you were pretty amped up from the adrenaline rush. My first reaction would be anger as well. I too am not perfect. (please don't tell my wife)
06-12-2007, 10:46 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by jrok
1) I respect this boards opinion and the danger so much that as a 2nd year DE/TT driver, before this season started, I have invested in $75,000 of insurance, fire gloves, fire balaclava, fire suit, race seats, roll bar, 6-point harness and a HANS device. Not to mention going through PCA DE school and all of NASA HPDE school last year. I will be going through PCA National Instructor Certification with Pete Tremper in two weeks as well.
I will do probably 40 track days this year. So it's not a matter of if, it's when -- and when that comes, I don't want to hurt anybody and I want to live. If I have to ditch to avoid somebody or something or my car breaks, I wanted to be prepared the first time -- because, well, you know.
2) This I need to focus on more, it is not just something to think about, I need to make it more instinct and that will have to come with seat time maturity and mental preparedness. I also need to be more regimented at calling out flag stations as "clear" in my head while I'm driving. That has been my goal this year and some sessions I get absorbed and forget. I haven't missed any flags, but I don't ever want to.
Thanks Mark, you must know that myself and many others appreciate any comments that you give.
I will do probably 40 track days this year. So it's not a matter of if, it's when -- and when that comes, I don't want to hurt anybody and I want to live. If I have to ditch to avoid somebody or something or my car breaks, I wanted to be prepared the first time -- because, well, you know.
2) This I need to focus on more, it is not just something to think about, I need to make it more instinct and that will have to come with seat time maturity and mental preparedness. I also need to be more regimented at calling out flag stations as "clear" in my head while I'm driving. That has been my goal this year and some sessions I get absorbed and forget. I haven't missed any flags, but I don't ever want to.
Thanks Mark, you must know that myself and many others appreciate any comments that you give.
06-12-2007, 10:55 PM
#33
IMHO, the reaction after an incident is as important, if not more important, than the incident itself. EVERYONE makes mistakes. A mistake does not mean that you are a bad driver that needs to be "knocked down a run group." Intent is everything, and the fact that you sat out to contemplate what happened shows a lot of maturity. Sounds like you learned something. Hopefully the other guy did as well. If that is true, then at least something good came out of the mistake.
06-12-2007, 11:09 PM
#34
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The CI in the yellow GT3 had his fist in the air to pit in and said he saw me coming and thought he saw two cars behind him with hands in the air.
Why in the world was he signalling to pit out there? Was he having a problem with his car? The CI screwed up in my opinion.
Why in the world was he signalling to pit out there? Was he having a problem with his car? The CI screwed up in my opinion.
06-12-2007, 11:11 PM
#35
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Originally Posted by JimmiLew
I think the guy's jestures say it all. He didnt think he gave you the point by, thats for sure! Under the DE rules, its the responsibility of the car making the pass to assure its a safe pass. I didnt see a point by, and that looked like a risky move in any event. Sorry, but if I was an instructor in your passenger seat, I would have waved you off from that pass. Better to wait for the straight and get a clean no questions asked point by. You are both lucky there was no damage.
You were going pretty good...
...BUT...
...if in doubt about what another driver is doing...
...or in doubt what you should be doing......
....wait until the next corner.
06-13-2007, 01:19 AM
#37
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You have valid points but in DE's, which I rarely participate in, I back off from a normal race weekend mindset. DE's have tremendously different levels of drivers. I always error on the side of caution in the circumstances that you dealt with.
I was surprised the Corvette gave you the pass by. I've had to stand on my brakes @ #7 at Road Atlanta as they roll through at 40 mph and then step on down the back straight and think they're the next Ron Fellows.
I was surprised the Corvette gave you the pass by. I've had to stand on my brakes @ #7 at Road Atlanta as they roll through at 40 mph and then step on down the back straight and think they're the next Ron Fellows.
06-13-2007, 12:18 PM
#38
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My $0.02:
Looking at the video around 0:45-0:48 you move offline early to get around a red 944. No problem, he gives you a point-by with plenty of room and along you go. But your change in track position tells me you anticipated a point-by here. The same thing happens later around 1:27. You go around the Corvette and immediately move right to pass, anticipating another point-by and this time it wasn't given. I can barely make out his point-by for the two cars in front of you and then see his arm go back into the car. It could be the video quality, but I see no indication he pointed you by.
The 944 drivers I know are very aware of overtaking cars, especially the guys in NA cars. The 911 drivers are more used to being the passer instead of the passee and watch their mirrors less. He could have just missed you.
Most importantly though, nobody got hurt and everybody learned something. That's what DE is all about. Oh, and having fun. Must not forget the fun.
Looking at the video around 0:45-0:48 you move offline early to get around a red 944. No problem, he gives you a point-by with plenty of room and along you go. But your change in track position tells me you anticipated a point-by here. The same thing happens later around 1:27. You go around the Corvette and immediately move right to pass, anticipating another point-by and this time it wasn't given. I can barely make out his point-by for the two cars in front of you and then see his arm go back into the car. It could be the video quality, but I see no indication he pointed you by.
The 944 drivers I know are very aware of overtaking cars, especially the guys in NA cars. The 911 drivers are more used to being the passer instead of the passee and watch their mirrors less. He could have just missed you.
Most importantly though, nobody got hurt and everybody learned something. That's what DE is all about. Oh, and having fun. Must not forget the fun.
06-13-2007, 12:22 PM
#39
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Originally Posted by DHinkle
I was surprised the Corvette gave you the pass by. I've had to stand on my brakes @ #7 at Road Atlanta as they roll through at 40 mph and then step on down the back straight and think they're the next Ron Fellows.
06-13-2007, 12:50 PM
#40
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Originally Posted by Greg Smith
Why did the driver of the silver car just walk off? Was he that angry or is there something I'm missing?
I have seen hot heads at DEs that confront people about the smallest and most idiotic stuff. Leaves me thinking if they are that high strung, they probably need to pick a different sport.
Recently, I was doing lead follow at a DE with another guy who has also races Formula and in Barber racing series and we passing a lot of people rather quickly. One guy in this high horsepowered Camero (he was in solo group) apparently did not like to be passed. He refused to give point bys and would literally try and cut you off if you drove off line down a 5/8s mile straight while waiting for a point by or setting up for a pass.
We just rolled through the hot pits and waited until he cleared. No big deal. After the session, however, the Camero guy then started approaching poeple and confronting a slew of people about driving out of control. He was heated. I guess trying to cut people off or blocking lines in a DE is controlled to him.
After he cooled his jets, he then started asking me about becoming an instructor . . .
06-13-2007, 01:15 PM
#41
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Glad to see you handled it so well. IMHO, that is why the mixing of signals in that area of the track is dangerous. Passing should be done all on the left in Thunder Valley, regardless if you think the passed car needs to go offline or not. Obviously it adds to confusion as shown here and going off line should not be an issue if you are slowing down to be passed. Just my $.02.
Glad no contact was made and you have the right attitude about all of this.
Glad no contact was made and you have the right attitude about all of this.
06-13-2007, 01:53 PM
#42
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Pitting in or not, no one should be driving that slow. There is plenty of room to cool down the car in the paddock. Also since the silver car was going just as slow there was zero reason for him to move over for the turn in.
06-13-2007, 03:16 PM
#43
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Originally Posted by Doug H
I just don't get bent out of shape when people make mistakes or someone comes close to me. In fact, I don't even think about it after it occurs.
I have seen hot heads at DEs that confront people about the smallest and most idiotic stuff. Leaves me thinking if they are that high strung, they probably need to pick a different sport.
I have seen hot heads at DEs that confront people about the smallest and most idiotic stuff. Leaves me thinking if they are that high strung, they probably need to pick a different sport.
